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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:20 pm 
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Interesting and detailed piece, but I don't really get some of these problems she's raising. No doubt there's a grain of truth in a lot of it, but it smacks of exaggeration.

She's certainly right about the 'double whammy' of card processing charges and no tips, though :sad:


I'm a Tunbridge Wells cabbie and these are the real reasons we don't want card paying passengers

https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-new ... al-8926615

The driver was responding after passengers have reported being refused at the rank because they didn't have cash

Image

A cabbie in Tunbridge Wells has driven home the reasons drivers don't like taking passengers who want to pay by card. Toni Conlon, a cabbie for 19 years in the town, details issues like passenger cards declining after a night out, phone payment problems, lack of signal for card readers, and passengers later canceling transactions.

It comes as passengers have frequently raised the issue of being refused at the taxi rank outside Tunbridge Wells Railway Station due to not having cash. A report by Tunbridge Wells Borough Council said the authority had received "a growing number of complaints from members of the public" unable to get a cab at night because drivers said they didn't have card readers.

The council, which is the licensing authority, said it was concerned about public safety and people without cash being "left stranded". It has been consulting on proposed changes to its policy governing Hackney carriages and private hire taxis.

Card payments, along with issues such as medical fitness, background criminal checks, reducing emissions, vehicle testing and a national register of drivers were all part of the recent consultation. As KentLive reported in September, the "general position" is drivers can't pass on surcharges for debit or credit cards to the customers, said the council.

And drivers have previously raised concerns about the problems of using card payments in areas with poor phone/internet signal. Shujaullah Baraki, the head of Tunbridge Wells Taxi Association, has called for a meeting with the council to "voice concerns directly".

And now Toni Conlon, who has been a cabbie in the town for 19 years, has exposed the difficulties faced by drivers trying to make a living, while grappling with everything from poor Wi-Fi and card charges, to the differing prices of medicals at surgeries.

Responding to the council's consultation which included making contactless/card payments mandatory, Toni said: "Taxis and private hire vehicles (PHV) must be the only industry in the UK, which is predominantly serviced by the self-employed, who are dictated to by the council as to how they get paid for their services!

"It is outrageous for a third party to interfere with somebody’s business, when they have very little working knowledge of the industry, or the problems faced by those working within that industry. An overview given by the licensing department does not equip anyone to pass judgement. In the past three months, I have found myself £234 out of pocket due to 'card payments' that fail.

Five reasons why card payments are a problem for taxi drivers:

Passenger has already spent all their money on a night out

Toni said: "The people who are complaining that they can’t use their cards, are the same people who have been out on the town in London, having purchased their return train ticket, get into a taxi, only to discover that they have depleted their entire bank account over some bar or other or in a nightclub. They then believe that the taxi driver should take them home for free – why?"

Their phone dies and it ends up being the driver's problem

"The phone runs out of charge, and we are expected to carry a full range of chargers, so that they can charge their phones in order to pay us."

Paying via a phone - where is the phone supposed to fit in a card reader?

"Apple/Google pay. This has happened to me twice now. They try to pay with their phone app, the card reader asks them to insert their card and use the pin, yet to find a way of inserting a phone into a card reader! They invariably don’t have a card and promise to do a bank transfer – they usually don’t."

No signal to process payment

"Which card readers take 'offline' payments? If one does exist, how do you know at the time of attempted payment, that the transaction has been successful? If the transaction were to fail, you would have no opportunity to ask for an alternative form of payment."

Passengers later cancel payments

"This has happened to at least three drivers in Tunbridge Wells. International travellers take a taxi to one of the airports, pay the driver by card. A few days later, the driver notices that the funds have been reversed as the traveller has told his card issuer that the transaction is fraudulent, none of the drivers have been successful in getting paid."

It's got "nothing to do with tax dodging"

And Toni stressed drivers' reluctance to accept cards had "nothing to do with tax dodging, which is the widely-spread belief". "It is about getting paid what we are owed for a job done. If you go to a supermarket, fill up a trolley with goods and go to the checkout, if your card fails, you leave without the goods. In a taxi, you have already had the service, we cannot take it back."

Drivers face a "double whammy"

And finally, Toni said drivers miss out on tips when passengers use cards, as it is customary for passengers to found up fare prices. She said: "The last little irritation, which may come across as greedy, is that nobody tips on a card. If a job came to £14.20, invariably the customer would give you £15 and tell you to keep the change. Only 80p, but multiply this by the number of clients across the whole of the industry in Tunbridge Wells, that is a lot of lost revenue.

"Although one should never expect to receive a tip, it is a fact that cash payers tip and card payers do not, whilst at the same time incurring transaction fees which we have to pay, double whammy. And yes we do know that we can claim the charges back on our tax returns at the end of the year, but that is just it, at the end of the financial year."

Shujaullah Baraki, the head of Tunbridge Wells Taxi Association, also gave a full response to the consultation, which ended on November 10, making many of the same points at Toni. He said at the end of his statement: "I want an appointment to discuss these concerns further and an opportunity to attend a meeting where I can voice our concerns directly. We hope our feedback and suggestions will be considered as the policy is finalised. We look forward to further discussions and constructive solutions that benefit both passengers and taxi drivers in Tunbridge Wells." The results of the consultation were heard by a TWBC licensing committee this week.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:21 pm 
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Quote:
Passenger has already spent all their money on a night out

Isn't that an old cash problem rather than a new one with card payments? In fact, I'd have thought that's an argument in favour of cards, because people who have run out of cash in the pubs and clubs can pay for their cab another way :?

Quote:
Paying via a phone - where is the phone supposed to fit in a card reader?

Never had the problem of people paying by phone and the reader asking to insert a card. Maybe it's a particular system that's the problem, but it's not one I've had with Zettle :?

Quote:
Passengers later cancel payments

I didn't think that was possible, although I'm not sure about the angle about international customers being able to cancel if they claim it's fraudulent...

Obviously the phone signal and phones dying en route are potential issues, and to be honest I probably don't have enough experience with cards and different systems to comment fully :?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:22 pm 
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Quote:
and passengers later canceling transactions.

When the customer is present with the card, the banks very very rarely entertain a claim back.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2023 10:24 pm 
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Quote:
"It is outrageous for a third party to interfere with somebody’s business,

What do you mean like the council via the licensing process? #-o

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:37 am 
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Quote:
Paying via a phone - where is the phone supposed to fit in a card reader?

"Apple/Google pay. This has happened to me twice now. They try to pay with their phone app, the card reader asks them to insert their card and use the pin, yet to find a way of inserting a phone into a card reader!


Had this a couple of times (at most) with SumUp 3G - seemed to be when the customer was slow to do the phone side, or didn't bring the phone near enough to the reader. Re-did the transaction and it worked OK on a second try every time.

Checked the payment history and the first try shows as unsuccessful, second ok.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 8:30 am 
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lost quite a few quid over the years through transactions declined at the end of the journey.

If the government (and councils) wants us to all accept cards then there is a need for some sort of back up system such as instead of declining the transaction the transaction should be "stored" in a pending account and once funds are in the bank account the transactions are completed. It means instead of not getting paid at all you would eventually get your money.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:14 am 
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Edders, chance of that happening approximately nil, I'd imagine. But does demonstrate the advantages of apps etc and prepaid runs, or where there's an account and automated payments, and the run will be charged automatically :-o

Don't think I've ever had a payment declined that they've not been able to pay in another way, but can certainly see the pitfalls for someone with a lot more experience of card readers than me. And, of course, on longer trips it's a MUF scenario if there are any doubts, and no different from cash.

Mr XH558, I think it's like card reader payments generally, whether cards or phones, or whatever - sometimes it doesn't work first time, but will work with another try.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:14 pm 
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I wonder how many of these Neanderthals moan about the likes of Uber taking all their work.

I also wonder when the penny will drop as to one of the main reasons why. #-o

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2023 7:00 pm 
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Clearly councillors have a shed load more common and business sense than sections of the local trade.

Exact date taxi drivers in Tunbridge Wells must accept card payments from passengers

https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-new ... ge-8935581

Taxi drivers in Tunbridge Wells will have to accept card payments from passengers after licensing bosses voted for the move. There were a "growing" number of complaints from members of the public who were refused rides from drivers for not having cash, said Tunbridge Wells Borough Council.

A consultation on this issue and other proposed changes to the licensing policy was held. Last week, councillors on the licensing committee voted to make it mandatory for drivers to accept card payments or other cashless methods. As KentLive reported, drivers said taking cards caused them issues, including with card readers in areas where phone signals were poor.

Shujaullah Baraki, the head of Tunbridge Wells Taxi Association, had called for a meeting with the council to "voice concerns directly". And Toni Conlon, a cabbie of 19 years, responded to the consultation with many reasons why cards created problems for drivers, including passengers' phones running out of battery, people not having money in their bank account, and even people cancelling the transaction at a later stage.

Following the meeting, the deadline was set for when drivers must comply. The chairman of the council's licensing committee Rodney Atkins said: "At the Licensing Committee meeting on November 21 members had a robust and lengthy discussion concerning cashless payments. Eight members voted for the cashless payments to be introduced, two voted against and one abstained."

"Passengers have told the council they want this facility in the borough and this decision means that taxis licensed by Tunbridge Wells Borough Council will be required to take cashless or card payments from January 2, as many other local authorities already do. Drivers will still be able to accept cash payments and if they are concerned about there being no signal for card payments they could ask for payment up front."

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