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Post subject:

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:43 pm

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:53 pm
Posts: 10381

Has anyone got any information on whether or not this case is still going to the court of session

Regards

JD

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gusmac

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:53 pm

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:31 pm
Posts: 12045
Location: Aberdeen

JD wrote:

Has anyone got any information on whether or not this case is still going to the court of session

Regards

JD

Still ongoing, but the wheels turn slowly.

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gusmac

Post subject:

Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:48 pm

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:31 pm
Posts: 12045
Location: Aberdeen

JD wrote:

Has anyone got any information on whether or not this case is still going to the court of session

Regards

JD

WAG member tells me the case is being heard at the court of session in December

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Post subject:

Posted: Wed May 30, 2007 6:10 pm

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:53 pm
Posts: 10381

gusmac wrote:

JD wrote:

Has anyone got any information on whether or not this case is still going to the court of session

Regards

JD

WAG member tells me the case is being heard at the court of session in December

Thanks for that info. Much appreciated.

Regards

JD

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badger

Post subject:

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 4:34 am

Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:12 am
Posts: 590
Location: North Of The Tyne

whizz wrote:

I am a taxi-driver in Aberdeen and a member of WAG (wheelchair action group).
When i was granted my license in1998, iwas told to go hackney i needed to put on a wav taxi (which i did) but AND HERES the big but, ALL saloon cars would be replaced by wavs between 2002-06. now this has not happened so why should we not be able to switch to saloon cars as we are being forced to run and buy more expensive vehicles than the saloon car drivers!
You can not have a 2 tier system and i am cofident the outcome in the court of sesseins will prove this!!
We have spent a lot of cash in this and in the end all we want is a level playing field!
So for the numpty who said " we knew the conditions when applying for our license " yes we did! but have the councill folowed through with theirs??

From past memory there used to be 191 H/C,s in Newcastle which were all saloon cars.In 1988 they allowed another 148 as long as they were wavs then the limit was put on.Then in 1994 they deregulated again and allowed the extra 148 wavs to revert to saloon cars but allowed about 440 extra wavs on the road.The present limit is about 780 H/C,s which is a mixed fleet of 339 saloons and the rest wavs

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TDO

Post subject:

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 2:56 pm

Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:51 pm
Posts: 5795
Location: The Internet

badger wrote:

Then in 1994 they deregulated again and allowed the extra 148 wavs to revert to saloon cars but allowed about 440 extra wavs on the road.

It was big of them to let the existing WAVs convert to saloons while the new plates had to be WAVs. [-X

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skippy41

Post subject:

Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 3:36 pm

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:44 pm
Posts: 10591
Location: Scotland

In her written judgment, Sheriff Cowan said the council, which argued that policy was "logical, defensible and necessary", ruled that its position was lawful in the absence of robust Government legislation.

She said that the Scottish Executive and Westminster must now act and set a date by which the pre-1994 exemption should end, however.

Quote:

It appears that there are many councils who have jumped on the band wagon, back in 1994, when nothing definite had been approved or set in stone, and at the resent disability forum in Europe they seem to have decided that there is no need for all wav's, as most disabled cannot get into them

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gusmac

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:53 pm

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:31 pm
Posts: 12045
Location: Aberdeen

JD wrote:

gusmac wrote:

JD wrote:

Has anyone got any information on whether or not this case is still going to the court of session

Regards

JD

WAG member tells me the case is being heard at the court of session in December

Thanks for that info. Much appreciated.

Regards

JD

Appeal to be heard at the Court of Session on 20th December 2007

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Post subject:

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:28 pm

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:53 pm
Posts: 10381

gusmac wrote:

Appeal to be heard at the Court of Session on 20th December 2007

That's interesting, which horse are you backing?

Regards

JD

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grandad

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:37 pm

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:27 pm
Posts: 20130

Can I have a pound each way?

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Grandad,

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gusmac

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:45 pm

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:31 pm
Posts: 12045
Location: Aberdeen

JD wrote:

gusmac wrote:

Appeal to be heard at the Court of Session on 20th December 2007

That's interesting, which horse are you backing?

Regards

JD

It's a bit close to call. Whatever is decided is likely to be the last word however, since WAG can't afford any further appeals and the council are minded (according to sources) not to purse it any further.
Should make for an interesting xmas around here, whatever happens :lol:

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stationloon

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:59 am

Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 5:51 pm
Posts: 103
Location: ABERDEEN

Wag or the councill will not go any further as next step would be house of lords and that is mega bucks!
I am sure things will go in WAGS favour!
Time to get this mess sorted out aonce and for all!

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Alex

Post subject:

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:01 pm

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:09 pm
Posts: 1180
Location: Miles away from paradise, not far from hell.

Got this via e-mail from a TDO member, and it sheds a little light on Aberdeen council's position.

Alex

Dear Sir,

Section 10(2) of the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982 states that a
Council shall not grant a taxi licence unless they are satisfied that the
vehicle is suitable in type size and design for use as a taxi. It is
therefore left up to each Council to decide whether a particular design of
taxi is acceptable for use as a wheelchair accessible taxi in its area.
There are no UK or Scottish wide specifications as to the internal
dimensions of a wheelchair accessible taxis to make it suitable for use as a
taxi carrying a passenger seated in their wheelchair. The Dept of Transport
for England and Wales were to have produced detailed regualtions on this,
but none have been forthcoming.

A vehicle may be perfectly acceptable for VOSA to consider a vehicle to be
acceptable for use a private car to accomodate a person sitting in a
wheelchair, but a Council might not consider that vehicle to be suitable for
use a commercial taxi.

In the absence of any offical guidance on these matters, our Council's
approach has been to refer to draft guidance produced for consultation by
the Dept of Transport in 1997 on the type of dimensions and design features
that wheelchair accessible taxis ought to include. This included a
recommendation that the minimum roof hight should be 1400mm between the
floor of the taxi and the roof to accomodate a passenger seated in their
wheelchair. These were only recomendations however and there were interim
arangements proposed to allow some types of taxi with lower roof hights to
continue in use for a period. Using this draft consultative guidance our
Taxi Examiners have recomended to our Licensing Committee that certain
particular types of taxis are suitable. The vehicles have changed and new
versions have appeared over time. Some leeway has been allowed for a few
vehicles to have roof heights less than 1,400 mm. Some vehicles have had to
have inserts fitted into their roof linings to raise the roof to an
acceptable height. A decision to refuse to license a particular taxi type
can always be appealled against.

The council has been written to by the Wheelchair Action Group in Aberdeen,
representing taxi operators with wheel chair accessible taxis, asking for
this matter to be discussed. Part of the problem appears to be that the
manufacturers of the body shells make various small dimension changes and
that different taxi modifiers adapt vehicles in different ways. As a
consequence it is not surprising that diferent council's allow some vehicles
to be sutable and some require certain modifications.What is really needed
is some nation wide specifications that taxi modifiers and Councils can all
work towards.

It is still a matter for every Council in Scotland to decide whether or not
it requires taxis in their areas to be wheelchair accessible or not. I
attach a couple of lenghty reports I prepared in 2005 on the issues
involved. These are complex issues.I am a frequent reader of Taxi Driver
Online and find it of great assistance and interest. I am aware of the
reports referred to by you. They do summarise many of the issues involved
but do not provide binding rulings.There are rumours that the Dept of
Transport might be considering changing its approach so as to require mixed
taxi fleets of accessible and saloon car taxis and it is this that is
delaying the introduction od the technical regulations. In the
meantime,however, it is up to each Council to decide how it can best address
the needs of all passengers for access to taxis.The Disability
Discrimination Act 2005 has also now requred all Councils to consider the
needs of disabled persons in forming their policies.

The council have been instructed by our Licensing to write to the Scottish Government
to express their concencerns as to the continued dificulties that disabled
persons still have in obtaining taxis and private hire cars in Aberdeen and
the unwillingness of the government to discuss these issues at all.

Mr Wilson's appeal, to which you refer, is to be heard at the Court of
Session on 20th December. Once the outcome is know, the decison will be
discussed with local taxi trade representatives and disabled representives.

The illegal operation of certain Aberdeenshire taxis and private hire cars
in Aberdeen was highlighted by taxi trade reps at the last meeting of the
Taxi/phc Consultation Group. Grampian Police have the ultimate
responsibility to enforce this area of the law.

I hope this is of assistance.

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Post subject:

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:18 pm

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:53 pm
Posts: 10381

Alex wrote:

Thank you for this contribution whoever you are, it is most welcome and may you continue to enjoy the facilities of this website.

Regards

JD

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skippy41

Post subject:

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:20 pm

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:44 pm
Posts: 10591
Location: Scotland

Quote:

In the absence of any offical guidance on these matters, our Council's
approach has been to refer to draft guidance produced for consultation by
the Dept of Transport in 1997 on the type of dimensions and design features
that wheelchair accessible taxis ought to include. This included a
recommendation that the minimum roof hight should be 1400mm between the

Quote:

floor of the taxi and the roof to accomodate a passenger seated in their
wheelchair. These were only recomendations however and there were interim

arangements proposed to allow some types of taxi with lower roof hights to
continue in use for a period. Using this draft consultative guidance our
Taxi Examiners have recomended to our Licensing Committee that certain
particular types of taxis are suitable. The vehicles have changed and new
versions have appeared over time. Some leeway has been allowed for a few
vehicles to have roof heights less than 1,400 mm. Some vehicles have had to
have inserts fitted into their roof linings to raise the roof to an
acceptable height. A decision to refuse to license a particular taxi type
can always be appealled against.

1400mm guidance???????? they should have contacted the PCO as the TX range, roof hight is only 1350mm

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