Taxi Driver Online

okay its late, the above statement was mine, forget that UN job ok!

My point was not that private hire drivers are better prepared for change, that we can leave for another day. It's the whole PH trade that is better suited for change, in a quota areas.

In quota areas, if demand suddenly increases i.e. new night club, another terminal, new college or university, then it takes the HC trade years to gain extra vehicles via the flawed survey procedure, followed by endless council meetings.

In the PH trade, we just go out and buy new vehicles.

Which, going back to the question asked in the topic heading, is more evidence as to why limiting PH vehicles is sheer folly.

ok expansion is easy ask anyone thats been in expansion industries, what about declining markets?

With more beer now drunk at home than out (indeed eating out is rising)
how do we plan for decline? with less young people and increasing elderly we are facing challenges.

in our area we are facing big population movement, the urban areas are shrinking the rural areas are rising the later fast,

lets have your philosopy on this, the one about Blackpool was indeed interesting, moving from London, there the uks biggest share of horse manure lies on the road.

I belive that for the first time in many years the demands on our industry is showing noghtime decline and daytime increase

Wharfie

I think the latest figures from the DOT (3 or 4 years ago), say that the number of customer miles our trade does annually, has increased 20% since 1995 (I think). If I get a mo, I will dig out the exact numbers.

Has the HC trade increased by that number to absorb the increased demand, oh no, but the PH trade has grown by more than 20%, and gladly met that increased demand.

As for now, I would say night time demand is increasing, because it isn't safe out there !!!! Thus we have less cars working at night, but more custom for those that do work.

Daytime, well I think that trade is increasing quite nicely. But that's only in my area. What it's like in other manors will no doubt differ.

I am sitting here reading all these posts, and have not yet seen a single valid argument against a single-tier system for the Taxi/Radio Car section of the market. However, there is still a break point needed between PH and Taxi.

I distinguish between the higher end PH market, as it is fundamentally different to the taxi trade, and under a new single tier taxi system, I would see the high end PH market taking quite a bit of our long distance work, leaving all the round-town taxi work to our new single-tier taxi/radio cars.

What I fail to see, is ANY valid argument in favour of all WAV. The sensible option is mixed fleets, with a statutory percentage of WAVs in each area. WAVs are not the total solution. Loads of our clientelle of elderly and disabled fall short of full wheelchair status, and much prefer the ease of access in and from a saloon. To remove their choice of saloons and replace them all with WAVs would be daft, unlesss of course, someone designed a PB Taxi that resolved the load height and seat access issues. And then, it was actually allowed to ply for hire.

London is THE prime example. Most (I emphasise: most) of the public prefer saloons to PBs, as evidenced in TFL's own figures which say there are 28,000 PBs and 80,000 PH. That speaks volumes, doesnt it.

My personal preference is for a PB or convertion, but I have often had problems with the elderly getting in and out. They simply prefer saloons to my vehilce.

_________________
There is Significant Unmet Demand for my Opinion.

no Andrew you have not tackled the question as to how decline will be dealt with.

we have dealt with new clubs opening but not clubs shutting.

your figures suprise me I though it to be more but will accept them.

this year our miles have declined for the first time in 5 yet it now takes 8 taxis to do what 6 did 4 years ago, our traffic is getting chronic

Wharfie

Andy,
I dont think the figures say anything, sorry but there is allsorts of other stuff to consider, like a taxi booked via agencies cost twice as much as those flagged in the street

dont rush to make assumptions more research needed.

Wharfie

I think I've possibly missed something here regarding a valid argument against a one tier system.

Without upsetting anyone too much, how's this:

The London cab trade has long since argued about touts, illegal minicabs etc, which is fair comment, as unlicensed private hire they are not checked by anyone, with perhaps the rare exception of the minicab firm they work for.

With this in mind the authorities have being virtually turning a blind eye to all the bad elements that will in no doubt have been attracted into the minicab game.

Presumably the new London private hire act will be checking the criminal past of their newly licensed private hire drivers, so perhaps this is one benefit of a two tier system.

An added benefit, (because some of us think that a one tier system will lead to all vehicles being made taxis), is that there will still be a hackney carriage trade in despite of licensed private hire.

The two tier system is not ideal, but to me it beats the hell out of licensing everything as taxis.

could I ask captain why you argue against 1 tier, captain cab and cruisin cab, confuse the hell out of me, but one of you has said, dont go through the back door whilst the front is open.

I aggree with that sentiment.

Wharfie

Its All a Load of *******s, i agree with you totally Dusty! and Geoff if you cant see it youve got your HC blinkers on yet again!!!


The scenario above regarding PH HC and unmet demand is exactly what's happening all over the country (yes outside yorkshire Geoff) and unless the HC proprietors get their act together and stop trying to protect a trade that flourished in the 60's but started to die in the 70's due to over protective measures, and increased public demand, and the advent of PH to cover the unmet demand (outside London) i mean come on wake up and smell the coffee even the big firms down London are putting on cars to cover work what the HC cant cover to protect their investment, i think it will go single tier within the next 10 to 20 years but unless the HC lads get their act together the PH lot will be dictating it all and i for one belive that the hc trade should take the lead.

ISNT THAT WHAT i HAVE BEEN SAYING OLD BOY?

Read the text and stop sniffing the coffee its affecting your senses!

Wharfie

I argue against a one tier system because I think that there is a place in this world for legit PH, whereas there's a place under my patio for the non legit PH. (sorry I'm not a Fred either Wharfie!)

The guest is right to a point, private hire is not going to go away, what is needed from the HC trade is more offensive actions, but these are sadly impossible in areas where the HC trade attempt to retain their plate values. Until then the HC trade will be on the defensive.

Incidentally going back to the SCATA article that wants a limit on PH, I understand that the author of the SCATA piece actually sold his HC plate and is now PH.....now go figure.

The actual figures I gave were wrong , the increase from 1995 to 1999/2000 was in fact 47%.

How do you deal with decline? Hmmmmmmmmm

I would have thought the first thing you do is ask why the decline. If you are doing something wrong, then you need rectify it.

However if it's a decline in the number of customers, and not your share of them, then you have a big problem. You then need to get your council to promote your area more, or gain more inward investment to your area.

But that takes years, as you know.

But if the market is in decline, then the trade will have to follow. Alas there aren't any free lunches out there anymore.

Personally I don't think there is even a half percent chance of there ever being a one-tier system. The genie is out of the bottle and can't be un-invented.

To me it doesn't matter who many tiers we have, providing that each is licensed and checked. Oh and (and it's a big and), free and open to all.

If the HC market was open to all that met the existing fit and proper criteria, we would view licensed PH the same way as we view buses and trains i.e. another form of transport that take people from A to B.

The only difference we have at present, is that some in the HC trade wish to keep it to themselves. They and only they, are to blame for the success and the growth of the PH trade.

They have, and will, reap what they have sown.

I was refering to market decline rather than company decline and its a very thorny one isnt it< beccause a market cannot go on growing forever and I think the market has peaked.

I say that because of the population figures, and the demographical make up, the numbers of the young in decline and elderly rising, the later briging more day trade.

I think we have to change the way we approach this, the days of pulling up sounding the horn and driving off are going for those of us that were vulgar enough to approach this system.

but its exactly the same for buses, and there are some intersting experiments happening around here, The hebden Bridger run by first bus stops at the door using low floor transits, buggies or wheelchairs can be rolled on, travelling routes via the pennines and onto the main route to transfer onto other vehicles, they have a cycle rack on the back of the bus, and they are also used as rail connectors, if train is late it will wait.

they are altering it regularly to meet customer demand.

needs thinking about.

Wharfie