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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:26 pm 
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Well that's just plain madness. :?

A driver needs to know what vehicle is acceptable to a council before he buys it.

A council needs to have a list of vehicles acceptable, and these can only be acceptable if they meet whatever conditions councillors have decided on.

Your way would keep the courts full for the next twenty years. :shock:

But even if it didn't go to court and each application was decided on it's own merits by a committee, as some committees only meet twice a year, are you saying that drivers can just wait?

Or what are you saying? :?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:39 pm 
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Road Runner wrote:
There is no provision in law for the council to insist on a new vehicle as this is a pre-condition , the above act provides for conditions to be attached to the grant of a licence under the 1847 act, until such licence is granted then no condition can be attached as nothing exists for them to attach it to


Section 47 gives the council a right to impose "reasonable conditions" on issuing a hackney carriage proprietors license. There is ample case law supporting this fact.

47 Licensing of hackney carriages

(1) A district council may attach to the "grant" of a licence of a hackney carriage under the Act of 1847 such "conditions" as the district council may consider "reasonably" necessary.

(2) Without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing subsection, a district council may require any hackney carriage licensed by them under the Act of 1847 to be of such design or appearance or bear such distinguishing marks as shall clearly identify it as a hackney carriage.

(3) Any person aggrieved by any conditions attached to such a licence may appeal to a magistrates' court.

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JD


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:51 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Well that's just plain madness. :?

Indeed it is

A driver needs to know what vehicle is acceptable to a council before he buys it.

Agreed, any vehicle already licenced in any area sets a precedence

A council needs to have a list of vehicles acceptable, and these can only be acceptable if they meet whatever conditions councillors have decided on.

Your way would keep the courts full for the next twenty years. :shock:

Not my way, i'm just interpreting what i read

But even if it didn't go to court and each application was decided on it's own merits by a committee, as some committees only meet twice a year, are you saying that drivers can just wait?

No, each authority already has it's own precedence based on vehicles already licenced

Or what are you saying? :?


What i'm saying is if someone wanted to challenge the legitamacy of a pre condition such as "new cars only" then the argument is there to use, i.e. "Ultre Vires" council acting outside it's delegated powers to inflict unfair and unenforcable conditions, if the case was won, and in my opinion it has a good chance, it would not effect any other fitness of use conditions

I am not going to help councils out on a public forum am i? it's up to them to provide a counter argument

Good argument though innit :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:58 pm 
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Road Runner wrote:
What i'm saying is if someone wanted to challenge the legitamacy of a pre condition such as "new cars only" then the argument is there to use, i.e. "Ultre Vires" council acting outside it's delegated powers to inflict unfair and unenforcable conditions, if the case was won, and in my opinion it has a good chance, it would not effect any other fitness of use conditions

Well someone did challenge the 'new car only' policy and they lost. :?

But what happens when the TX4 or the new Mondeo came/comes out? Are you saying the council will have to approve it via the courts? :?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:03 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
Road Runner wrote:
What i'm saying is if someone wanted to challenge the legitamacy of a pre condition such as "new cars only" then the argument is there to use, i.e. "Ultre Vires" council acting outside it's delegated powers to inflict unfair and unenforcable conditions, if the case was won, and in my opinion it has a good chance, it would not effect any other fitness of use conditions

Well someone did challenge the 'new car only' policy and they lost. :?

Musn't have used the right argument then, which court and when?


But what happens when the TX4 or the new Mondeo came/comes out? Are you saying the council will have to approve it via the courts? :?


No, it will be new, no need to challenge it, until they come onto the second hand market
:lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:23 pm 
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Road Runner wrote:

No, it will be new, no need to challenge it, until they come onto the second hand market
:lol:

I do have some sympathy with what you're trying to get across, but it would be better to get licensed and then fight the good fight, rather than fight the good fight before getting licensed. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:36 am 
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Road Runner wrote:
Sussex wrote:
Road Runner wrote:
There is no provision in law for the council to insist on a new vehicle as this is a pre-condition , the above act provides for conditions to be attached to the grant of a licence under the 1847 act, until such licence is granted then no condition can be attached as nothing exists for them to attach it to

But how would anyone know if a council will license a vehicle or not? :?


As long as the council are assured it is fit for use as a hackney carriage then under the 1847 act it must grant a licence or defend it's decision in a magistrates court initially

As i said before, conditions may only be attached to the GRANT of a licence, it may be an unfortunate wording from the councils perception but there it is in black and white



I wish it was in black and white.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:57 pm 
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In 2003 Julie Jones used to be a prominant member of the Swansea TOA, perhaps she still is? If she cares to pass any comment on this thread she is most welcome.

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JD


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:02 pm 
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A 1991 vehicle from Plymouth is more than likely a shed to be honest. :?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:13 pm 
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Darren63 wrote:
A 1991 vehicle from Plymouth is more than likely a shed to be honest. :?


At the time the vehicle was presented for test it was only three years old but the point of my post was to highlight the ever increasing incursions of "conditions of license" rather than the mechanical state of the vehicle.

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JD


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 3:18 pm 
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Oooop, sorry, thought this was a recent case, didnt notice 1996. #-o


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:35 am 
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Hi, my name is Julie Jones from Swansea I challenged the council on the by law stating a taxi will only be licensed if new. The reasoning for this was you can only tell a vehicle is roadworthy if it's new....
I was was already a licensed taxi driver in Plymouth my vehicle was 18 months old when I applied to the council for a Swansea taxi licence so I could transfer my business back to Swansea where my mum had just been diagnosed with cancer. After going through all the proper channels they agreed if it past the plating procedure they would licence it, so I put it in for test it's passed the test with flying colours and then they refused to plate the vehicle saying that because it wasn't NEW they couldn't tell if it was roadworthy...bullshit! And as for saying it might be a shed , Plymouth had the hardest test in the land , I was an owner driver and I looked after my vehicle meticulously never let anyone else drive it. After they lied and try to cheat me out of my fee I had to go through all the court system over an 18-month period using every penny I had only to end up at Queen's bench in London... The last court case did not end up on whether they broke the aggrement and my cab did fit the criteria cos it was in pristeen condition , it ended up on the word "Reasonable" a whole court case and the judge found that one person's reasonable it's not an others , it's a case of how long is a piece of string ....if you have any questions please contact me... Thank you


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:03 am 
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Hi Julie.

For Time Elapsed between postings on the same string this one must be a TDO record Breaker


14 years, 8 months, 17 days

And Ironically after all that time the mindset of many Council officials with regards the age of Fit for Purpose Vehicles has hardly changed....many of them still think Age trumps Vehicle roadworthyness, even though you can get clapped out newish Vehicles and Pristine Older ones.....and only a Proper Taxi Vehicle test can ascertain whats fit for purpose or not regardless of age.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:13 pm 
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Nightshift069 wrote:
if you have any questions please contact me... Thank you

Thank you Julie for adding a bit of info to this thread.

Your story is a lesson to us all that the courts don't always follow the logic of the ordinary person, and councils will act in a stupid way when quite often common sense is by far the best way forward.

The DfT has said age limits 'may be arbitrary and inappropriate' but sadly said that in 2010. If they had said that in 2005 then I suspect we would have seen a different outcome.

My view is to never go to court against a council unless your driver's license is in peril, but I applaud you for the way you fought for what you believed was right. =D>

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 6:15 pm 
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Oh and I love the 14 year gap.


Image

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