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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2022 9:41 pm 
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A few questions Im struggling to find an answer to:

My better half had a non fault accident when someone pulled out to overtake a couple of vehicles without looking and hit her car head on and on her side of the road (She's OK other Guy not very OK at all)....100% Not her Fault.

Seeing as it was in her companies car will it affect the NCD on our own Private car insurance, secondly will it affect the NCD on both my PH vehicles which she also drives, or will it only affect the NCD on the Company car insurance that her Boss pays, or will it not affect any NCD on any of those insurances.

Also when would our own insurers need informing and would licensing need informing even she has caused no offence.

Any advice welcome or has anyone had a similar issue.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 4:00 am 
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If it's a no-fault accident as regards your wife and that's been agreed, then shouldn't affect anyone's NCD except that of the driver who caused the accident. Even if it was her fault, would have thought it would only affect the company car NCD, and not your private car insurance or the plated vehicles.

(Of course, if it was her fault then she'd have to declare it when renewing the private car and plated vehicle policies, so to that degree the premiums could increase.)

But it's a minefield, and to be honest I don't really know the answers. And even in a straightforward no-fault scenario they could increase your renewal premium anyway, so it doesn't matter whether or not you've lost your NCD anyway :roll:

As for whether to inform your insurers in the meantime I'm not sure, but it would certainly need to be declared at renewal time, but again shouldn't affect the premium if there's no fault on her part.

As regards informing the council, your conditions look like the bog standard ones used by Scottish councils. So to that extent I don't think the council needs informing unless there's a specific offence or conviction, or if the accident involved a plated vehicle.

Scottish Borders Council PHD conditions wrote:
18. The conviction of the private hire car driver or of the holder of the private hire car licence for any crime or offence and the endorsement of either such person’s driving licence with an offence or penalty shall be reported by the private hire car driver to the Licensing Authority as soon as practicable after the conviction or endorsement becomes known to him.

https://www.scotborders.gov.uk/download ... itions.pdf

Scottish Borders Council PHC conditions wrote:
3. The holder of a private hire car licence, when the private hire car is damaged in a vehicular accident or by any other means, shall report the damage to the licensing authority as soon as practicable and, if the private hire car is roadworthy, he shall present it for inspection within the following two working days (being days on which the garage nominated by the licensing authority to carry out such inspections operates) after the occurrence. As soon as repairs to the private hire car have been completed, the private hire car shall again be presented for inspection. Unless the inspecting garage confirms otherwise, the vehicle shall not be used as a private hire car from the date of first presentation for examination until it has been re-examined by the inspecting garage after the repairs have been completed and passed by them as being fit for use again as a private hire car.

https://www.scotborders.gov.uk/download ... itions.pdf


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 4:07 am 
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Of course, there's a ton of stuff available online about all of this, and no doubt you've looked at some of it already.

But there's some interesting stuff here about how premiums can go up even after no-fault accidents and even if NCD isn't affected.

And about how you need to tell your personal insurer about an accident in a company car. (Although, for example, it's not clear here whether you need to tell your insurer at the time, or just at renewal.)

https://www.comparethemarket.com/car-in ... e-premium/

But I think the problem with all this kind of stuff is that there are no hard and fast rules when it's not a very straightforward case, and different insurers will approach it all in different ways.

Which is maybe why you can't get concrete answers.

To be on the safe side I'd get in touch with all your insurers, but I can't see it making any real difference to anything.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 9:22 am 
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My answer would be that if a claim has been made then you must inform all the insurance companies that she is insured with. The reason being that failure to disclose a claim, even non fault, could result in the policies being voided. As to weather any no claims discount is affected would be down to what is in the terms.

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 10:23 am 
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StuartW wrote:
If it's a no-fault accident as regards your wife and that's been agreed, then shouldn't affect anyone's NCD except that of the driver who caused the accident. Even if it was her fault, would have thought it would only affect the company car NCD, and not your private car insurance or the plated vehicles.

(Of course, if it was her fault then she'd have to declare it when renewing the private car and plated vehicle policies, so to that degree the premiums could increase.)

But it's a minefield, and to be honest I don't really know the answers. And even in a straightforward no-fault scenario they could increase your renewal premium anyway, so it doesn't matter whether or not you've lost your NCD anyway :roll:

As for whether to inform your insurers in the meantime I'm not sure, but it would certainly need to be declared at renewal time, but again shouldn't affect the premium if there's no fault on her part.

As regards informing the council, your conditions look like the bog standard ones used by Scottish councils. So to that extent I don't think the council needs informing unless there's a specific offence or conviction, or if the accident involved a plated vehicle.

Scottish Borders Council PHD conditions wrote:
18. The conviction of the private hire car driver or of the holder of the private hire car licence for any crime or offence and the endorsement of either such person’s driving licence with an offence or penalty shall be reported by the private hire car driver to the Licensing Authority as soon as practicable after the conviction or endorsement becomes known to him.

https://www.scotborders.gov.uk/download ... itions.pdf

Scottish Borders Council PHC conditions wrote:
3. The holder of a private hire car licence, when the private hire car is damaged in a vehicular accident or by any other means, shall report the damage to the licensing authority as soon as practicable and, if the private hire car is roadworthy, he shall present it for inspection within the following two working days (being days on which the garage nominated by the licensing authority to carry out such inspections operates) after the occurrence. As soon as repairs to the private hire car have been completed, the private hire car shall again be presented for inspection. Unless the inspecting garage confirms otherwise, the vehicle shall not be used as a private hire car from the date of first presentation for examination until it has been re-examined by the inspecting garage after the repairs have been completed and passed by them as being fit for use again as a private hire car.

https://www.scotborders.gov.uk/download ... itions.pdf


None of the two Council conditions shown above applies, it wasnt a PH car and nor has she commited any motoring offence, she was the innocent party.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 10:35 am 
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grandad wrote:
My answer would be that if a claim has been made then you must inform all the insurance companies that she is insured with. The reason being that failure to disclose a claim, even non fault, could result in the policies being voided. As to weather any no claims discount is affected would be down to what is in the terms.


I think it only needs to be disclosed at the point of applying for searching for a renewal quote, but the confusion here is that of her being on our partnerships PH insurance, then also seperately on her own Private Car insurance of which I'm only a named driver and then she is also on her Employers Insurance as a named driver for the car she gets to use for her work commute as part of employment package...and it's this vehicle that was hit.

I guess, we'll be informing all our various insurers come renewal time, this will also give the police a chance to interview the other driver under caution when they are well enough to be interviewed and shown all the evidence the police gathered at the scene.

What a mess...


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 11:59 am 
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bloodnock wrote:
StuartW wrote:
If it's a no-fault accident as regards your wife and that's been agreed, then shouldn't affect anyone's NCD except that of the driver who caused the accident. Even if it was her fault, would have thought it would only affect the company car NCD, and not your private car insurance or the plated vehicles.

(Of course, if it was her fault then she'd have to declare it when renewing the private car and plated vehicle policies, so to that degree the premiums could increase.)

But it's a minefield, and to be honest I don't really know the answers. And even in a straightforward no-fault scenario they could increase your renewal premium anyway, so it doesn't matter whether or not you've lost your NCD anyway :roll:

As for whether to inform your insurers in the meantime I'm not sure, but it would certainly need to be declared at renewal time, but again shouldn't affect the premium if there's no fault on her part.

As regards informing the council, your conditions look like the bog standard ones used by Scottish councils. So to that extent I don't think the council needs informing unless there's a specific offence or conviction, or if the accident involved a plated vehicle.

Scottish Borders Council PHD conditions wrote:
18. The conviction of the private hire car driver or of the holder of the private hire car licence for any crime or offence and the endorsement of either such person’s driving licence with an offence or penalty shall be reported by the private hire car driver to the Licensing Authority as soon as practicable after the conviction or endorsement becomes known to him.

https://www.scotborders.gov.uk/download ... itions.pdf

Scottish Borders Council PHC conditions wrote:
3. The holder of a private hire car licence, when the private hire car is damaged in a vehicular accident or by any other means, shall report the damage to the licensing authority as soon as practicable and, if the private hire car is roadworthy, he shall present it for inspection within the following two working days (being days on which the garage nominated by the licensing authority to carry out such inspections operates) after the occurrence. As soon as repairs to the private hire car have been completed, the private hire car shall again be presented for inspection. Unless the inspecting garage confirms otherwise, the vehicle shall not be used as a private hire car from the date of first presentation for examination until it has been re-examined by the inspecting garage after the repairs have been completed and passed by them as being fit for use again as a private hire car.

https://www.scotborders.gov.uk/download ... itions.pdf


None of the two Council conditions shown above applies, it wasnt a PH car and nor has she commited any motoring offence, she was the innocent party.

Yes, that was precisely what you said earlier, and what I said in my post :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 6:23 pm 
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I can't see how a non-fault accident in a fully insured vehicle can affect the premiums on a separately insured vehicle.

But I would inform your insurance company as a matter of courtesy.

When dealing with insurance companies you really do need to cover your ar**.

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 11:54 pm 
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StuartW wrote:
bloodnock wrote:
StuartW wrote:
If it's a no-fault accident as regards your wife and that's been agreed, then shouldn't affect anyone's NCD except that of the driver who caused the accident. Even if it was her fault, would have thought it would only affect the company car NCD, and not your private car insurance or the plated vehicles.

(Of course, if it was her fault then she'd have to declare it when renewing the private car and plated vehicle policies, so to that degree the premiums could increase.)

But it's a minefield, and to be honest I don't really know the answers. And even in a straightforward no-fault scenario they could increase your renewal premium anyway, so it doesn't matter whether or not you've lost your NCD anyway :roll:

As for whether to inform your insurers in the meantime I'm not sure, but it would certainly need to be declared at renewal time, but again shouldn't affect the premium if there's no fault on her part.

As regards informing the council, your conditions look like the bog standard ones used by Scottish councils. So to that extent I don't think the council needs informing unless there's a specific offence or conviction, or if the accident involved a plated vehicle.

Scottish Borders Council PHD conditions wrote:
18. The conviction of the private hire car driver or of the holder of the private hire car licence for any crime or offence and the endorsement of either such person’s driving licence with an offence or penalty shall be reported by the private hire car driver to the Licensing Authority as soon as practicable after the conviction or endorsement becomes known to him.

https://www.scotborders.gov.uk/download ... itions.pdf

Scottish Borders Council PHC conditions wrote:
3. The holder of a private hire car licence, when the private hire car is damaged in a vehicular accident or by any other means, shall report the damage to the licensing authority as soon as practicable and, if the private hire car is roadworthy, he shall present it for inspection within the following two working days (being days on which the garage nominated by the licensing authority to carry out such inspections operates) after the occurrence. As soon as repairs to the private hire car have been completed, the private hire car shall again be presented for inspection. Unless the inspecting garage confirms otherwise, the vehicle shall not be used as a private hire car from the date of first presentation for examination until it has been re-examined by the inspecting garage after the repairs have been completed and passed by them as being fit for use again as a private hire car.

https://www.scotborders.gov.uk/download ... itions.pdf


None of the two Council conditions shown above applies, it wasnt a PH car and nor has she commited any motoring offence, she was the innocent party.

Yes, that was precisely what you said earlier, and what I said in my post :roll:


If I said it and you said that I said it then who's repeating who #-o


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2022 11:57 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
I can't see how a non-fault accident in a fully insured vehicle can affect the premiums on a separately insured vehicle.

But I would inform your insurance company as a matter of courtesy.

When dealing with insurance companies you really do need to cover your ar**.


At what point do I inform our insurer...Now, or after the police create a final report for both the Insurers or when it comes up for renewal?


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 7:26 am 
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bloodnock wrote:
Sussex wrote:
I can't see how a non-fault accident in a fully insured vehicle can affect the premiums on a separately insured vehicle.

But I would inform your insurance company as a matter of courtesy.

When dealing with insurance companies you really do need to cover your ar**.


At what point do I inform our insurer...Now, or after the police create a final report for both the Insurers or when it comes up for renewal?

Usually it is in your policy details and can be within 24 hours of the incident.

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 9:18 am 
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Sussex wrote:
I can't see how a non-fault accident in a fully insured vehicle can affect the premiums on a separately insured vehicle.

But I would inform your insurance company as a matter of courtesy.

When dealing with insurance companies you really do need to cover your ar**.


Insurance companies load your premium for non fault accidents but I believe it varies from company to company and not usually for just one

Also if you don't tell them then they will happen across it when they search the shared databases on this

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 11:54 am 
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BOTH drivers will take a hit come renewal time..

its how Insurers make millions

the guilty 3rd party as he was to blame, your wife as she will now be considered an increased risk

fecking crooks all of em

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 11:56 am 
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bloodnock wrote:

At what point do I inform our insurer...Now, or after the police create a final report for both the Insurers or when it comes up for renewal?


asap, the guilty one will be reporting/claiming, your missus's insurers will be contacted for details and wonder why they havent been informed, your wife could have her insurance voided...

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2022 12:40 pm 
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grandad wrote:
bloodnock wrote:
Sussex wrote:
I can't see how a non-fault accident in a fully insured vehicle can affect the premiums on a separately insured vehicle.

But I would inform your insurance company as a matter of courtesy.

When dealing with insurance companies you really do need to cover your ar**.


At what point do I inform our insurer...Now, or after the police create a final report for both the Insurers or when it comes up for renewal?

Usually it is in your policy details and can be within 24 hours of the incident.


Her Company insurers were informed the same day and I suspect that's all she needs do....it's now down to them to sort it once they get the police report of the accident and who was charged with what.

Just been informed by my Broker that My PH insurer and her Private car Insurer do not need to know until these Insurance fall due for renewal.


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