Vehicles Illegally Plying Impounded, Confiscated, Crushed

Brummie Cabbie · **Posted:** Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:08 pm

I am trying to get to the bottom of this story, the true or myth of it & if true, which I believe it may well be, the legality of this issue.

I am being advised that this practice by the police of impounding, confiscating & in some cases crushing vehicles that have been caught illegally plying for hire started almost a year ago, allegedly in Liverpool, where to date there have been seven such cases. The Merseyside Police are allegedly using the same legislation that is available to all police forces in confiscating & crushing private vehicles that have been driven on the road without insurance. The thinking is apparently that whilst the said vehicle MIGHT have ‘Hire & Reward’ insurance, it does not have ‘Public Hire’ insurance & is therefore not insured for the purpose of plying for hire. Allegedly the CPS in Liverpool have backed this action, but everything seems to have gone quiet in Scouse-land since the initial burst of activity, which was some months ago now.

Also, one vehicle has allegedly been crushed for the same ‘offence’ in the London area, & there are rumours that Manchester has taken, or is thinking about taking the same action.

Has anyone got any further info on this subject from wherever in the country, but especially Liverpool?

gusmac · **Posted:** Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:23 pm

There was a video on here a couple of months ago with one being crushed at Gatwick. I'll see if I can find it.

gusmac · **Posted:** Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:25 pm

Here it is

http://www.crawleyobserver.co.uk/news/V ... 4148075.jp

Brummie Cabbie · **Posted:** Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:29 pm

Thanks gusmac. that's a good start!!

JD · **Joined:** Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:53 pm **Posts:** 10381

I think the high court might have something to say about a police policy that only targets private hire owner/drivers. Perhaps someone should ask Merseyside police why their policy doesn't apply to Liverpool hackney carriages illegally plying for hire outside Liverpool? I suppose someone will remind me that a Liverpool hackney carriage driver has never picked up a flagger outside of Liverpool.

Except for the incident highlighted by Gusmac I haven't heard of any licensed private hire vehicle being crushed anywhere in the UK.

I think it is probably a case that any vehicle being used in a criminal act can be confiscated and crushed, I presume subject to appeal. The consideration in the taxi scenario is that the vehicle is not always driven by the owner and under such circumstances it is the driver committing the offence and not the owner of the vehicle. Under such conditions I doubt that the police have the power to crush the vehicle.

Regards

JD

GBC · **Posted:** Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:12 pm

If a policy was adopted whereby the vehicle was crushed upon conviction, I think touting throughout the UK would virtually disappear overnight, and that would be a good day for all. [-o<

Brummie Cabbie · **Posted:** Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:13 pm

It is the alleged involvement of the CPS in Liverpool that intrigues me!

JD · **Joined:** Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:53 pm **Posts:** 10381

GBC wrote:

If a policy was adopted whereby the vehicle was crushed upon conviction, I think touting throughout the UK would virtually disappear overnight, and that would be a good day for all. [-o<

Yes a good deterrent but first you have to convince police and licensing officials to actively get off their backsides and obtain convictions. There is not a man woman or child on this forum who has not seen police stand idly by as unlicensed drivers pick up a flagger right before their eyes. That's how blatant I perceive the practice to be in most areas.

Regards

JD

Brummie Cabbie · **Posted:** Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:27 pm

GBC wrote:

If a policy was adopted whereby the vehicle was crushed upon conviction, I think touting throughout the UK would virtually disappear overnight, and that would be a good day for all. [-o<

No conviction is necessary in the case of a private vehicle. With private vehicles driven without insurance the police know immediately via modern technology that the vehicle is not insured & impound it on the spot, but give the owner/driver seven days to produce insurance just in case a brand new insurance policy has not been registered on the database. Usually the owner admits after questioning that it is not insured & signs the vehicle away to police then & there. After that the vehicle is confiscated & usually crushed (because they are old). Or in the case of one highlighted in the London area a £60k motor that was not insured because the young owner did not realise that it would cost him £20k to insure & drove it uninsured, that vehicle was confiscated & sold at auction.

I don't know the full proceedure with vehicles illegally plying for hire, but I doubt it is as above.

Taxi touting though is covered by an entirely different act; Section 167, Criminal Justice & Public Order Act 1994

Brummie Cabbie · **Posted:** Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:35 pm

JD wrote:

There is not a man woman or child on this forum who has not seen police stand idly by as unlicensed drivers pick up a flagger right before their eyes. That's how blatant I perceive the practice to be in most areas.

Oh it better than that in Brum JD.

Here they stand in half a dozen lines or more of 15-20 long all the way down Broad Street & outside other venues in the city with THEIR OWN PRIVATE HIRE RANK MARSHALS, supplied by the PH operators & the city authorities do sweet FA.

MR T · **Joined:** Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:26 pm **Posts:** 8529

I happen to know one of the police officers that is involved.. the initiative has been going on for two years, 25,000 vehicles... yes 25,000 have been stopped and confiscated' many have been retained to their owners after they have gone out and purchased insurance, although many have been crushed, it does not matter whether it be a private car or a private hire vehicle, if they cannot produce insurance it will either be sold or clashed... the good part about this is that the number of accidents involved with insured drivers has dramatically reduced..... and parking has improved :lol:

MR T · **Joined:** Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:26 pm **Posts:** 8529

Brummie Cabbie wrote:

JD wrote:

There is not a man woman or child on this forum who has not seen police stand idly by as unlicensed drivers pick up a flagger right before their eyes. That's how blatant I perceive the practice to be in most areas.

Oh it better than that in Brum JD.

Here they stand in half a dozen lines or more of 15-20 long all the way down Broad Street & outside other venues in the city with THEIR OWN PRIVATE HIRE RANK MARSHALS, supplied by the PH operators & the city authorities do sweet FA.

I have heard a rumour that some licensing officers and ex-police officers are getting together to form a special squad that can be rented out to councils, to deal with illegal plying for hire...

JD · **Joined:** Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:53 pm **Posts:** 10381

Brummie Cabbie wrote:

Taxi touting though is covered by an entirely different act; Section 167, Criminal Justice & Public Order Act 1994

We've discussed taxi touting and section 167 on many occasions, here is one such thread.

http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7745

A vehicle which is insured for private hire use does not suddenly become uninsured when a licensed private hire driver illegally picks up passengers off the street. The offence relates to the private hire driver not being insured for that purpose, the passengers are always insured.

Regards

JD

JD · **Joined:** Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:53 pm **Posts:** 10381

MR T wrote:

I have heard a rumour that some licensing officers and ex-police officers are getting together to form a special squad that can be rented out to councils, to deal with illegal plying for hire...

The A team no doubt.

Local councils already have the means by which to enforce illegal plying for hire but no doubt this is an admission that all councils are lackadaisical when it comes to such enforcement. Something I tried to point out to our Newcastle friends.

Regards

JD

Brummie Cabbie · **Posted:** Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:06 pm

JD wrote:

A vehicle which is insured for private hire use does not suddenly become uninsured when a licensed private hire driver illegally picks up passengers off the street. The offence relates to the private hire driver not being insured for that purpose, the passengers are always insured.

In a scenario where a licensed PHV driver were to illegally ply for hire & pick up a group of passengers who were then involved in an horrific accident which was the fault of the PHV driver & resulted in multi-million pound compensation claims from the passengers, I think the insurance company would probably decline to pay-out, once they were aware of the facts. The PHV driver is NOT insured for Public Hire.

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