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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:57 pm 
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GA wrote:
What a clown you really are


lol I was right about it being head banging time.

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If you have a job you get stuff like National Minimum Wage, Holiday Pay, Sickness pay


That might apply if you are an employee but in the taxi trade most people are self employed. I suppose one question that springs to mind is can a person be self employed without running a business?

If taxi driving is not a job then what is it?

Quote:
and you don't have to buy anything in order to do your job


How many cab drivers do you know that buy there own vehicle? Then tell me how many cab drivers you know that don't buy their own vehicle but who rent of someone who has bought a vehicle?

Now what were you saying about a job?

When you go to the labour exchange do they still ask you "what was your last job"? I assume a cab driver would say I was a cab driver but perhaps not you, what would you say?

Quote:
if it ain't supplied by the company then you don't need it.


That's refreshing to know.

Quote:
With a business you need to supply the tools required to do the job


So how does that square with someone who rents a cab? Does he go to the cab owner and say have you got any jobs, or have you got any tracks available and if the cab owner says no then he is out of a job but if the cab owner said yes would the cab driver then become a business? The status of being self employed in effect means that you are a business but I suppose there are instances of self employed status that do not require you to run a business such as in the case of a cab driver. A cab driver renting out a vehicle has no financial investment therefore before he can become self employed he requires a job, he can only get that job if someone who already has a licensed cab and is prepared to give him one.

Quote:
If you leave a job you leave the tools and everything else supplied to you.


If a cab driver who obtains a job from a proprietor and who subsequently leaves, would he not leave behind the tools of his trade, which where never his in the fist place? Where does that stand in your distinction between job and business?

Where does sections 47, 48 and 49 of the 1847 act stand in your distinction of job and business? What can be drawn from the meaning of section [b48 Proprietor to retain licences of drivers, and to produce the same before justices on complaint In every case in which the proprietor of any such hackney carriage permits or employs any licensed person to act as the driver thereof, such proprietor shall cause to be delivered to him, and shall retain in his possession, the licence of such driver, while such driver remains in his employ; [/b]

What do you think the relationship of Bailor and Bailee means, or master and servant? Anyone running a business would be liable for any actions by his employees would he not? Does it not make you wonder why a cab driver is not liable for any third party damage caused by him while driving someone else's cab.

Have you ever considered that a proprietor who doesn't drive a cab would need to employ the cab to a driver or drivers and that in those circumstances he would be providing those drivers with the means in which to carry out a job of work?

I'm curious to know if you have ever described taxi driving as being a job because if you have then all this nonsense your typing is just an exercise at nit-picking and a blatant contradiction of your statement that "taxi driving is not a job"?

Regards

JD

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:58 pm 
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Id not get to Excited Skippy...check this Link

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/lates ... 4186310.jp
Quote:

Wont affect me as I'm a sole trader.
Everyone who applies to run a taxi or PH in Scotland must have an oporatores licence for each car or cab, it may be different in some parts of Scotland but thats whats required in the Borders


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:18 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
IMHO In a few places, more work from the area they are paying to be licensed in. Not watching that work disappear to vehicles and drivers which have been licensed under lower quality control standards.


There would be no benefit for North East hackney cab drivers because 99% of those working in these North East areas are ex local private hire drivers. These guys will simply change their Berwick plate for a private hire plate. I'm not convinced there may be more work in some areas as you put it because these vehicles are working off a private hire radio system and in reality should have nothing to do with public hire.

With regard to standards Newcastle licenses older vehicles than Berwick or did you not realise that?

Regards

JD

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:54 pm 
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JD wrote:
gusmac wrote:
IMHO In a few places, more work from the area they are paying to be licensed in. Not watching that work disappear to vehicles and drivers which have been licensed under lower quality control standards.


There would be no benefit for North East hackney cab drivers because 99% of those working in these North East areas are ex local private hire drivers. These guys will simply change their Berwick plate for a private hire plate. I'm not convinced there may be more work in some areas as you put it because these vehicles are working off a private hire radio system and in reality should have nothing to do with public hire.

With regard to standards Newcastle licenses older vehicles than Berwick or did you not realise that?

Regards

JD


No, didn't realise that.

There must be some advantage to licensing a vehicle in Berwick though, otherwise why do they bother? It can't just be to save a few quid off the licence fees. :?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:11 pm 
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grandad wrote:
GA wrote:

If you have a job you get stuff like National Minimum Wage, Holiday Pay, Sickness pay and you don't have to buy anything in order to do your job .............. if it ain't supplied by the company then you don't need it.



Thats a good one. How many garage mechanics do you know that have their tools supplied by the company?


Two ............ one works for a Vauxhall dealer the other for a Ford dealer.

Yes they do have their own tools (which they prefer to use) but there is a tool kit in the garage ................. but I will ask you one question in return as you want to attempt a debate -

Do they all have their own specialist tools and diagnostic equipment, do they have their own 4 poster ramps and do they contribute to the heating lighting and other bills.

Do they get holiday pay, do they get minimum wage, do they get sick pay do they have employee rights safe working practices .................. does a driver of a HC or PH vehicle.

Your comparison is like my favorite scene from Only Fools and Horses when trigger states with much pride "I've had the same brush for years".
I wonder if you would suggest that he had bought it himself.

B. Lucky :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:20 pm 
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JD wrote:
When you go to the labour exchange do they still ask you "what was your last job"? I assume a cab driver would say I was a cab driver but perhaps not you, what would you say?


Previously I was a self employed taxi driver!!!!!!!!!

Of course its a f**king job you dimwit but in order to do the job you need, in the vast majority of cases, to declare your employment status as SELF EMPLOYED which means, strangely, that you employ yourself and as such are classed as a sole trader or a small business person.

B. Lucky :D

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"Here's a simple solution. If you don't want to pay more for a premium service then wait in the queue, problem solved".
Skull on TDO

TF pi$$ed on his chips.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:02 pm 
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Boggins wrote:
MR T wrote:
Boggins wrote:
Why Uniformity, Different areas have Different needs and Versatility is more important than uniformity. The only one thing that should be done with a degree of Uniformity is Customer safety and standards, be it HC or PC.


I said missed the point............ I think you've lost the plot



quote="MR T"]
Boggins wrote:
Why Uniformity, Different areas have Different needs and Versatility is more important than uniformity. The only one thing that should be done with a degree of Uniformity is Customer safety and standards, be it HC or PC.


I said missed the point............ I think you've lost the plot



Poor old MR T....typically showing the Symptoms of Intolerance brought about through Ignorance, its the Usual single theme obsessives view that if its not his own view its no view at all.

I fear you may have contracted Myxomatosis from some of those poor old sussex rabbits you shoot, this in turn has caused your eyes to swell and applied excess Pressure to the Tolerance and Understanding Nerves within your Brain. Id lay off the Bunnys for a while...might be best for you and them.
:roll:[/quote]


You have managed to conclude a great deal from two one-liners.... where as I came to the conclusion that you're an idiot from your pass posts..... I wouldn't worry though... there is plenty more like you...

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:10 pm 
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JD wrote:
MR T wrote:
If you had bothered to read it correctly...... you would have seen that the intention was to leave single drivers alone..... no Hackney Association nationally would agree to restrict their members in such a way........ it is a bit obvious really. :oops:


Well that just shows how stupid you are because you don't even understand what's being advocated. How the hell can cab drivers rely on people like you to look after their best interests when you haven't got a clue what your proposing?
___________________

Proposed Amendment

Section (d)

(d) No **person** shall in a controlled district operate any vehicle including a hackney carriage as a private hire vehicle without having a current licence under section 55 of this Act issued by the council of the **area** in which the operator is based.
__________________________

Proposed Amendment

Section (e)

(e) No **person** licensed by a council under the said section 55 shall in a controlled district **operate** any vehicle as a private hire vehicle unless -

(i) That vehicle is also **licensed by that council** under section 48 of the act of 1976; or

(ii) That **vehicle** is also licensed by that council as a **hackney carriage** under the act of 1847; and

(iii) The **driver** of the vehicle has a current drivers license issued by that council under the provisions of the act of 1976 or the act of 1847 as is appropriate to the type of vehicle.
____________________

Proposed Amendment

"Operate”, means in the course of business to make provision for the invitation or acceptance of bookings for a private hire vehicle or hackney carriage save for any occasions where the driver of a hackney carriage whilst within their own district, accepts a booking for a future date.
___________________

Proposal 7 – Definition Operate

This proposal is meant to have the affect of making any person taking bookings for a number of vehicles either hackney or private hire, having to be licensed as an operator. It is also meant to exclude from the statutory definition an occasion where an individual hackney driver plying or standing for within their own area accepts a booking for a future event and which booking **starts or finishes** within their own district.
_____________________


It really makes my blood boil when people like you blatantly try to pull the wool over cab drivers eyes by deliberately misleading them.

Those proposals which you obviously don't understand say that any driver who accepts a booking other than while standing or plying for hire in their licensed area*requires an Operators license*. Do you understand that numskull? It also says that any driver in the UK cannot accept a mobile phone booking whilst in any area of England and Wales. It also means every hackney carriage driver will need an operators license to take booking at home or anywhere else for that matter, except when they are actually plying for hire in their cab. However they can't accept mobile phone bookings in their cab because that will be an offence. It will also be illegal for a hackney cab driver whilst standing and plying for hire to take a booking for a person in Blackpool travelling to London. Systems such as taxi call will be dead in the water and you have just made criminals of every hackney cab driver in the country.

That's how much of an idiot you are.

Now after calling you an idiot for not understanding what these proposals mean perhaps you can tell us why we hackney cab drivers *NEED* these proposals and how they will benefit us? Either you or any of your motley crew can step onto the plate and explain away these crazy restrictive proposals but I'll tell you something for nothing, "I doubt any of you have the balls or intelligence to do so".

Regards

JD
I really feel sorry for you JD..... when you do not understand what a discussion document is..... it is not the final draft.... now if it was the final draft I could understand where you're coming from.... but it is not.... do you understand what not means....... all you're doing is running round like a frightened little girl waving your arms in the air... you need to grow up..... or maybe not....

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:13 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
JD wrote:
gusmac wrote:
IMHO In a few places, more work from the area they are paying to be licensed in. Not watching that work disappear to vehicles and drivers which have been licensed under lower quality control standards.


There would be no benefit for North East hackney cab drivers because 99% of those working in these North East areas are ex local private hire drivers. These guys will simply change their Berwick plate for a private hire plate. I'm not convinced there may be more work in some areas as you put it because these vehicles are working off a private hire radio system and in reality should have nothing to do with public hire.

With regard to standards Newcastle licenses older vehicles than Berwick or did you not realise that?

Regards

JD


No, didn't realise that.

There must be some advantage to licensing a vehicle in Berwick though, otherwise why do they bother? It can't just be to save a few quid off the licence fees. :?

it might have something to do in with the fact that the drivers do not need to take a test

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:14 pm 
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MR T wrote:
You have managed to conclude a great deal from two one-liners.... where as I came to the conclusion that you're an idiot from your pass posts..... I wouldn't worry though... there is plenty more like you...



You know who it is Trev.

Give it a couple of weeks and peace will reign once more.

Don't feed it, boredom will set in and another reincarnation will appear sooner or later. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:22 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
Quote:
Proposed Amendment

Section (d)

(d) No **person** shall in a controlled district operate any vehicle including a hackney carriage as a private hire vehicle without having a current licence under section 55 of this Act issued by the council of the **area** in which the operator is based.
__________________________

Proposed Amendment

Section (e)

(e) No **person** licensed by a council under the said section 55 shall in a controlled district **operate** any vehicle as a private hire vehicle unless -

(i) That vehicle is also **licensed by that council** under section 48 of the act of 1976; or

(ii) That **vehicle** is also licensed by that council as a **hackney carriage** under the act of 1847; and

(iii) The **driver** of the vehicle has a current drivers license issued by that council under the provisions of the act of 1976 or the act of 1847 as is appropriate to the type of vehicle.
____________________

Proposed Amendment

"Operate”, means in the course of business to make provision for the invitation or acceptance of bookings for a private hire vehicle or hackney carriage save for any occasions where the driver of a hackney carriage whilst within their own district, accepts a booking for a future date.
___________________

Proposal 7 – Definition Operate

This proposal is meant to have the affect of making any person taking bookings for a number of vehicles either hackney or private hire, having to be licensed as an operator. It is also meant to exclude from the statutory definition an occasion where an individual hackney driver plying or standing for within their own area accepts a booking for a future event and which booking **starts or finishes** within their own district.
_____________________




Seems to me that this is an attempt to end the "Berwick" situation, as well as the Delta situation on Merseyside.
In theory, it would do that. In practice you would still need to get the authorities to enforce the new amendments. Most won't enforce rules and laws that already exist. Why should the new ones be any different?

There is also the danger that you could be throwing the baby out with the bath water here..........

This wouldn't affect us in Scotland, so this is an outsider's view.

I am not a part of the meeting of minds..... so for me to make a statement that they are doing this... or intending to do that.... would be wrong...... it is not my way.... I am not JD.

I would offer a guess, that it has to do with the licensing of hackney radio companies. hackney radio companies do not need to be licensed the same as private hire, but if they were...?????

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:28 pm 
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MR T wrote:
gusmac wrote:
JD wrote:
gusmac wrote:
IMHO In a few places, more work from the area they are paying to be licensed in. Not watching that work disappear to vehicles and drivers which have been licensed under lower quality control standards.


There would be no benefit for North East hackney cab drivers because 99% of those working in these North East areas are ex local private hire drivers. These guys will simply change their Berwick plate for a private hire plate. I'm not convinced there may be more work in some areas as you put it because these vehicles are working off a private hire radio system and in reality should have nothing to do with public hire.

With regard to standards Newcastle licenses older vehicles than Berwick or did you not realise that?

Regards

JD


No, didn't realise that.

There must be some advantage to licensing a vehicle in Berwick though, otherwise why do they bother? It can't just be to save a few quid off the licence fees. :?

it might have something to do in with the fact that the drivers do not need to take a test


I doubt they would need a test to drive a Newcastle PHV either.
If Berwick require a higher standard of vehicle, why do it?
Unless the reason is to ply for hire outside Berwick which is already illegal?
If so why change the law when the existing law isn't being enforced?
What makes anyone think these new proposals would be enforced either?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:34 pm 
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Just a fantasy.... I have a private hire radio company in Newcastle and I want to expand, but I am having problems getting my drivers through the knowledge test.. and some do not speak English to good.. and others are just plain thick... so what do I do....
I know........... I look for a council that does not have a knowledge test.... Happy Days I have licensed drivers..... what does it matter if I have to Licence my vehicles there as well.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:37 pm 
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gusmac wrote:
MR T wrote:
gusmac wrote:
JD wrote:
gusmac wrote:
IMHO In a few places, more work from the area they are paying to be licensed in. Not watching that work disappear to vehicles and drivers which have been licensed under lower quality control standards.


There would be no benefit for North East hackney cab drivers because 99% of those working in these North East areas are ex local private hire drivers. These guys will simply change their Berwick plate for a private hire plate. I'm not convinced there may be more work in some areas as you put it because these vehicles are working off a private hire radio system and in reality should have nothing to do with public hire.

With regard to standards Newcastle licenses older vehicles than Berwick or did you not realise that?

Regards

JD


No, didn't realise that.

There must be some advantage to licensing a vehicle in Berwick though, otherwise why do they bother? It can't just be to save a few quid off the licence fees. :?

it might have something to do in with the fact that the drivers do not need to take a test


I doubt they would need a test to drive a Newcastle PHV either.
If Berwick require a higher standard of vehicle, why do it?
Unless the reason is to ply for hire outside Berwick which is already illegal?
If so why change the law when the existing law isn't being enforced?
What makes anyone think these new proposals would be enforced either?


I think you will have noticed that I believe licensing officers should be retrained to one standard nationally.... because they interpret the law in different ways.... if a radio company in Sefton was to put on a Berwick Licence hackney as a private hire vehicle, the company I think would soon be in court having its licence revoked

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:37 pm 
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MR T wrote:
Just a fantasy.... I have a private hire radio company in Newcastle and I want to expand, but I am having problems getting my drivers have through the knowledge test.. and for some do not speak English to good.. and others are just plain thick... so what do I do....
I know........... I look for a council that does not have a knowledge test.... Happy Days I have licensed drivers..... what does it matter if I have to Licence my vehicles there as well.


Do PHV drivers have a knowledge test in Newcastle?

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