Taxi Driver Online

Most people know that a licensing authority is only allowed to regulate fares within their own licensing district. A journey which ends outside the licensed area can be negotiated. This case highlights that fact but it should be remembered that where a fare has not been negotiated before the journey starts then in many cases licensing authorities have bye laws which state you can only charge whats on the meter, so be reminded of this before you get into a protracted argument about fares.
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Goodman v Serle
(KBD) Kings Bench Division
14 July 1947

[1947] K.B. 808
[1947] 2 All E.R. 318
63 T.L.R. 395
(1947) 111 J.P. 492
[1948] L.J.R. 381
177 L.T. 521
(1947) 91 S.J. 518

Subject: Licensing

Summary: The effect of the London Cab Order, 1934, which is made under s. 9 of the Metropolitan Public Carriage Act, 1869, is that s. 9 can be read in this way: "The Secretary of State may from time to time by order make regulations for fixing the rates or fares for distance to be paid for hackney carriages, provided that no hackney carriage shall be compelled to take any passenger a greater distance for any one drive than six miles."

It follows that where a cabman has agreed to convey a fare for more than six miles on one drive, no fare has been prescribed and it is left to a bargain between the parties. Consequently, where the distance is more than six miles the cabman cannot be convicted of demanding more than the proper fare contrary to s. 17(1) of the London Hackney Carriage Act, 1853. Per Lord Goddard, C.J.: S.44 of the London Hackney Carriage Act, 1831(1 & 2 Will. 4, c. 22), may for all practical purposes be regarded as obsolete.

Legislation Cited

London Cab and Stage Carriage Act 1907 s. 1
London Hackney Carriage Act 1853 s. 1
London Hackney Carriage Act 1853 s. 4
London Hackney Carriage Act 1853 s. 7
London Hackney Carriage Act 1853 s. 17
London Hackney Carriage Act 1831 s. 4
London Hackney Carriage Act 1831 s. 43
London Hackney Carriage Act 1831 s. 44
London HackneyCarriage (No. 2) Act 1853 Ord. 2
London HackneyCarriage (No. 2) Act 1853 s. 13
Metropolitan Public Carriage Act 1869 s. 9
Metropolitan Public Carriage Act 1869 s. 15
London Cab Order, 1934 (SI 1934 ) Reg. 34
London Cab Order, 1934 (SI 1934 ) Reg. 40
London Cab Order, 1934 (SI 1934 ) s. 34
London Cab Order, 1934 (SI 1934 ) s. 40
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This is a London Case JD.....is it applicable in the provinces?

regards

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

I'm sure you are aware that Eastbourne are of the opinion that it isn't and if a passenger directs the driver to drive anywhere in the country then they must drive. That is the advice given by the Eastbourne LO. I think I have already posted the comments on here.

I have reference to a case dating back to 1900 which adresses the question of out of area fares. When TDO writes its own version of taxi licensing law I may include it as an added tit bit. In the meantime I'm sure there are many who will offer an opinion as to the opinion of the Eastbourne LO.

Regards

JD

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

Thanks for that...I wasn't aware of the Eastbourne lo....

I was wondering because I was certain section 66 gave a driver an excuse...to charge more than would be allowed on the tariff....provided he made an agreement before the commencement of the journey and didn't use the meter.

But then I was thinking that the 1847 act forbids that practice.

regards

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

You don't normally ask a question of this sort without a reason, has someone asked for your advice on the matter?

Regards

JD

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

Yeah me.....fare increase problems close to home....just wanted to confirm that if a fare is going beyond the prescribed area, the fare is open to negotiation and the driver could in theory charge more.

regards

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Here is the comment in respect of Eastbourne.

http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9264

I suspect this opinion is now doing the council rounds because I imagine the advice came from their legal department, or perhaps some other authorities legal department. I doubt they have reference to the case law dating back to 1900 hundred when this issue was first raised in respect of hackney carriages but it is an interesting opinion which is based on the refusing to drive apsect of the 1847 act.

Don't you have a copy of the book? Or does it not address that aspect?

Regards

JD

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

Thanks for that JD....yes I have a copy and of Button too, the button one, from memory seems to back the Eastbourne LO opinion.

Will read the NALEO book later.

regards

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

53 Penalty on driver for refusing to drive.

A driver of a hackney carriage standing at any of the stands for hackney carriages appointed by the commissioners, or in any street, who refuses or neglects, without reasonable excuse, to drive such carriage to any place within the prescribed distance,

or the distance to be appointed by any byelaw of the commissioners, **not exceeding** the prescribed distance to which he is directed to drive by the person hiring or wishing to hire such carriage, shall for every such offence be liable to a penalty not exceeding [level 2 on the standard scale].

68 Byelaws for regulating hackney carriages

The commissioners may from time to time (subject to the restrictions of this and the special Act) make byelaws for all or any of the purposes following; (that is to say,)

For fixing the stands of such hackney carriages, and the distance to which they may be compelled to take passengers, not exceeding the prescribed distance:

For fixing the rates or fares, as well for time as distance, to be paid for such hackney carriages within the prescribed distance, and for securing the due publication of such fares;

1976 act section 66 Fares for long journeys

(1) No person, being the driver of a hackney carriage licensed by a district council, and undertaking for any hirer a journey ending outside the district and in respect of which no fare and no rate of fare was agreed before the hiring was effected, shall require for such journey a fare greater than that indicated on the taximeter with which the hackney carriage is equipped or, if it is not equipped with a taximeter, greater than that which, if the current byelaws fixing rates or fares and in force in the district in pursuance of section 68 of the Act of 1847 or, as the case may be, the current table of fares in force within the district in pursuance of section 65 of this Act had applied to the journey, would have been authorised for the journey by the byelaws or table.

(2) If any person knowingly contravenes the provisions of this section, he shall be guilty of an offence.


Does that help?

Regards

JD

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

The bits you've highlighted do yes.

Many thanks

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

I have always taken the red bold type above as being evidence enough that a driver may charge more than the Table of Fares when accepting a hiring to a destination beyond the prescribed distance, provided always that the fare is negotiated prior to the commencement of the hiring.

Otherwise, why would Section 66 of the LG(MP) Act 1976 have such wording, if it were not to acknowledge that a greater fares than the Table of Fares may be charged for hirings terminating beyond the prescribed distance?

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.

I was pointing out to CC that a driver was only compelled to travel within his own licensed area and that a council can only set a rate of fares for within its own licensed area. There is nothing to prevent a driver from refusing a fare that finishes outside his licensed area which in all reality is described as being the "prescribed distance", no matter what the circumstances.

Therefore, unless there is a recent item of case law that has passed me by, then the Eastbourne LO and anyone else who agrees with her position, in my opinion is wrong.

Did you think I was suggesting the opposite of what I just wrote?

Regards

JD

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

No, no, not at all Mr JD.

I know full well that this would be your position.

But I know that the likes of Mr James Button, & would you believe the initial Btec/NVQ course booklets in Road Passenger Transport (Taxi & PHV) stated that a driver may not charge more than would be the metered fare for hirings beyond the prescribed distance.

There is nowhere in any legislation that I know, apart from the intimation in the wording of Section 66 of LG(MP) Act 1976 that I have highlighted in red above, that states that a driver may charge more than the metered fare for hirings beyond the prescribed distance.

I always have done.

But with the two cases I have mentioned above, it does make you wonder which planet some of these 'experts' are from.
Also, I do not believe that Eastbourne are alone in their erroneous edict to drivers. I well remember scanning loads of Table of Fares from around the country via the Internet when we were deliberating in Birmingham about the introduction of night rates & one or two of those had similar wording on the Table of Fares.

_________________
Kind regards,

Brummie Cabbie.

Type a message, post your news,
Disagree with other members' views;
But please, do have some decorum,
When debating on the TDO Forum.

Thank you both.....very useful indeed.

regards

CC

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin