Taxi Driver Online

If thats the case what about self drive hire mini-buses?

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

This article sheds a little more light on the situation.

Stretch limo firm faces penalties

4:20pm Tuesday 11th November 2008

The directors of a Gwent limousine company were disqualified from holding an operator’s licence for five years and the company has had its licence revoked.

A public inquiry into Go-Stretch Ltd, based in Undy, Caldicot, last month revealed company directors Scott and Julie Demaret were using unlicensed vehicles and drivers.

Traffic Commissioner Nick Jones announced his decision and said the company “was set up in bad faith, with a view to avoiding prosecutions.”

The inquiry, on October 15, heard of three occasions when Go-Stretch limousines were stopped by police and found not to have either the required Public Service Vehicle licence or Certificate of Initial Fitness, and of an incident when one of the vehicles burst into flames while operating in Bristol in February.

Neither of the company directors attended the inquiry.

In his decision, Mr Jones said he received a letter in August from Mrs Demaret, asking to surrender their operator’s licence after Go-Stretch Ltd decided to cease operating.

**He said in the letter Mrs Demaret wrote: “We have never wished to operate outside the law and have tried our upmost to comply, but the law as it stands cannot be complied with by stretch limousines.”**

In his decision, Mr Jones said: “I refused to accept the surrender of the licence as I felt that regulatory matters needed to be heard at a public inquiry.”

He added: “The evidence presented to me shows evasion, denial and delay when dealing with the regulatory authorities.”

In his report he stressed it is not illegal to use a stretch limousine for personal use but using a vehicle for hire and reward invokes the need for a licence.

Limousines with nine or more passenger seats must have a PSV Licence, granted by a traffic commissioner
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That is the crux of the matter. Some of the limos can't get a license from their LA and some of them can't get a pcv license.

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Grandad,

Profile of Nick Jones TC.
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The new Traffic Commissioner was educated at Cotham Grammar School in Bristol and graduated with an LLB (Hons) from the University of Leicester in 1976. He was called to the Bar in 1977.

In more recent years he was awarded an MA in Management and HRD from the University of Central England. He is also a chartered member of the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development.

For much of his working life Mr Jones was a chief officer in the magistrates' courts service and served as a justices' chief executive and as a justices' clerk in West Yorkshire and in West Mercia. For much of his time as a chief officer he has been responsible for training staff and magistrates on law, including road traffic law.

Mr Jones has worked in courts in Nottinghamshire, Kent, South Yorkshire, West Yorkshire and West Mercia. For the last two years he has been a senior crown prosecutor in both Birmingham and Hereford.For over a decade he has been a member of NACRO's National Race Issues Advisory Committee.
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So they invent their own? lol

I have sympathy for these guys not having a licensing home but operating illegally is not going to do them any favours in the long term and it could even disqualify them from obtaining a license in the future if they are convicted of operating illegally.

Now that Nick Jones has got his teeth into this I wouldn't like to be a welsh licensed limo operator mixing and matching licensed and unlicensed limos. I wonder how many more limo operators in wales have a similar set up to that of Mr and Mrs Demaret?

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

Outside of Scotland there is no such thing as a hackney carriage operator.

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IDFIMH

If you go on any of these peoples web site it does not mention self drive hire but the only services on offer is hire with a vehicle and driver like any other.If you go on Avis and the other self drive rental companies it states SELF DRIVE HIRE, so how can these limo companies still say they only offer self drive hire. If you offer a service you would mention it on your web site I would have thought.

Because they are a bunch of liars.

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IDFIMH

If you advertise Self drive hire then that is what you must offer.

I understand the concept of self drive hire in relation to limousines is exclusively locked in the minds of limo operators who think they can circumvent the law by way of a concocted contract of hire.

The Welsh Traffic Commissioner was alive to such a contract when he revoked the license of one Gwent limo operator.

I understand the misguided have put out a statement saying they didn't operate the illegal contract correctly.

I have news for all unlicensed limo operators and that is it doesn't matter one jot what terms are contained in the contract, its the application of the service being provided that concerns a court of law.

Its about time the unlicensed limo fraternity wised up.

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

The IoL have their tuppence worth.

IoL's view of the current situation

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IDFIMH

I don't think so.

The description is main business (not job) and by business they mean the business of operating PCV.

What the true meaning is that if you run a fleet of coaches or busses and you have a minibus with 8 or less passenger seats the main part of your businesses would be the coaches and busses and not the minibus and you could use that minibus to carry passengers ............ however in order to complete the legal criteria the driver of the mini-bus should hold a PCV licence.

The constant "changing of words" to suit argument is a trait on here ........... but in most cases just a ruse to justify the argument.

B. Lucky

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"Here's a simple solution. If you don't want to pay more for a premium service then wait in the queue, problem solved".
Skull on TDO

TF pi$$ed on his chips.

My understanding is if you run a Business, any business, that providing that the PCV Side of it would accounts for no more than Approximately an unwritten third of your Gross Income you can then you can apply for a Restricted Licence to run up to 2 Minibuses....anything more and you need to have full licences and a Person of professional competence (transport Manager)..the Form PSV 437 shown on the Vosa Link page makes it Clearer..

http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/forms/busandcoachoperatorlicenceforms/busandcoachoperatorlicenceforms.htm

So the Post Office could apply for a restricted PVC operators licence but a Postman could not.

I use this example because as you are probably aware that the Post Office does operate a bus service in rural areas (or if they don't now they certainly did) utilising the same vehicle as that collecting mail.

I think the reason for questioning the word "business" by including the word "job" is a ruze to avoid local authority regulation which is more restrictive than licensing with the TC.

B. Lucky

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"Here's a simple solution. If you don't want to pay more for a premium service then wait in the queue, problem solved".
Skull on TDO

TF pi$$ed on his chips.

I was under the impresssion that YEARS ago TDO established exactly what amounts to A PSV operator's licence? I don't think anything has changed since then?

Just for those who have forgot a PSV operators license may be either a standard licence or a restricted licence.

A standard licence authorises the use of any description of PSV, either for national operations only, or for national and international operations.

A restricted licence authorises the use (whether for national or international operations) of PSVs not adapted to carry more than 8 passengers and PSVs not adapted to carry more than 16 passengers when used otherwise than in the course of a business of carrying passengers, or by a person whose main occupation is not the operation of PSVs adapted to carry more than 8 passengers.

Anyone unsure of the PSV licensing structure should read the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 or the appropriate booklet which has already been mentioned in this thread. Alternately I'm sure any one of the many subcribers on TDO who actually run PSV's will only be too willing to advise you on the status of PSV licensing.

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.