Taxi Driver Online

Chances are, you have made this up to suit your argument. Try sticking to the facts.




WTF has 2 drug dealers got to do with a young woman trying to hail a cab? Last time I checked, hailing a cab wasn't illegal



You know of many sex offenders with a taxi driver's licence in Edinburgh?
Don't they do checks on applicants?

Plenty have a car and ordinary driving licence.


Nothing of the sort has been proved. Only that they still occur, not how more or less likely they are to happen.

You accuse skull and jasbar of using these rapes to further their case. Aren't you belittling these women's experiences and twisting the facts to further yours?
What makes you any less sick?

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http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/

I don't agree that a taxi driver should have to pay grossly inflated premiums, I never have. Having used every other argument to create the free for all that de-restriction causes and having knowledge that it doesn't actually stop young girls being raped, yeah I do find it distasteful and shameful.



In Liverpool (which is restricted) and other cities they employ rank marshalls. This enables young girls and other punters to wait safely for a taxi to arrive, this lowers the risk of waiting on the streets late at night. Educating young girls on safety lowers the risk significantly so it's not just 'fine' it actually works.



We're all in this job to make money, but, I'll ask you the same question I asked Skull and that is 'When was the last time you gave a lift home to a young girl obviously worse for wear and with little or no money just so they wouldn't get raped? I mean purposely given the lift not accidently cos she didn't have enough when you got there'. I'm not being flippant it's a genuine question, cos I'd like to know. I'm not the one saying that if there was more taxis there would less rapes. If there was less pervs there would be less rapes.



I think you're obsessed with plate premiums rather than public safety. How's about they put on free buses or through the night bus services to ensure that the public can get home safely, do you fancy that. Not only are we de-restricted we also have late night buses on the weekends to ensure public safety. So if you're going down the road of public safety don't forget to include everything and not just what you would like to see eradicated.



Not as many times as I've read that young girls have come to harm having got into a licenced taxi or ph. Solution to this is again ensuring that not only are taxis easy to recognise but so are ph.



Totally agree



A lot of this is down to enforcement which also helps when dealing with public safety. PH will continue to balloon even in de-restricted areas cos generally they offer a better service at a better price



It was the same here but quite some time ago. Things don't change overnight but with proper enforcement things do change



I don't dismiss it out of hand, I just don't think that de-restriction works. I base my arguement on the fact that I work in a de-restricted area. One aspect of public safety that is affected in areas like mine is the fact that drivers work unsafe hours to make ends meet, thus increasing the likelihood of an accident which may kill a passenger. It doesn't necessarily reduce the risk of rape as pointed out previously the last rape I was made aware of was committed when there was a queue of taxis. What exactly do you base your arguement on apart from something one person said?



I come out with things like this because they are. I don't believe it is bourne out of genuine concern for public safety.

Lets just get this straight again, I don't believe that plates should be allowed to be sold in any way shape or form, but, that is something that needs to be addressed. The free for all that de-restriction brings doesn't work either. There has to be another solution

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

Oust Cameron and elect Toots ! The new "iron lady"

So who or what is this fount of all knowledge on the rape question? You haven't proved that derestriction doesn't help the situation, and you misrepresent the point by saying it doesn't stop rape. No one ever claimed it did. It's about the level of risk.

And describing taxi drivers driving their own taxi as a 'free for all' displays your obvious bias.

And the point is not your personal opinion of Taylor and Thomson, it's about the closed market and the relevance of the BPG.




Again the issue is multi-factorial (to use the jargon) but I don't think the real danger lies in queuing at ranks - not the cleverest place for a rapist to strike, even without marshalls - and you can't stop people trying to hail taxis elsewhere.




But it's a slightly silly question, if you don't mind me saying. I might as well ask when a taxi proprietor in Edinburgh last handed their plate to someone else because they wanted to provide for their family.




So elsewhere you're going on about education and rank marshalls, but now it comes down to a perv being a perv?

As I said, it's multi-factorial, as you seem to agree when it suits, but your oroblem is the BPG and rebutting the principle outlined in that.






I thought you were replying to me, not the profiteers and wanabees on here



I've got a better idea - what about free taxis?

I'm sure that'll go down a storm with your supporters on here - any takers?

And who's paying for all these marshalls and free buses etc?





On the first point, I suspect that's down to sheer numbers, but if there were more bogus cabs than legitimate taxis and PH then do you think safety would improve or get worse?

On the second point, make PH easy to recognise and you encourage illegal plying. Things seemed to be better in Edinburgh when there were minimal PH, but the closed market put paid to that.



Indeed, but you seem to be blaming this, that and the next factor except for the one in the BPG and according with simple common sense.

No bias evident then Toots?

[/quote]

Yes, a good argument for the taxi monopoly there




Again, you seem to be selective in the arguments you support.

The police often claim that controlling taxi numbers is detrimental to law and order and public safety, so you can't just dismiss arguments like this and the BPG out of hand, particularly when that supports profiteering, and just saying that you don't think it should happen is just a cop out.




Again you seem fixated by Taylor rather than looking at things objectively? Police, councillors, some in the trade, the BPG etc makes the case. Of course, there are plenty who will argue to the contrary, but please don't claim that it's just one person.

As for the first point, you're saying that PH drivers in restricted areas work shorter hours because taxi numbers are restricted?

And you're saying that drivers paying servicing a £50k loan to buy a plate or paying £300 a week rental means they work less hours?



Think what you like, but the arguments of T&T aren't the end of the argument, and it's up to others - like the courts - to evaluate the evidence objectively.

But one thing's abundantly clear, I don't think those supporting restricted numbers are doing it out of concern for public safety.



Which is?

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Caledonian Cabbie

So you're saying you don't know then?

Well that was a complete waste of time

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Caledonian Cabbie

Once and for all.

There is NO LINK between the amount sexual crime and the amount of taxis operated in any area.

If you want to talk about rape, there are other sites for that purpose.

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IDFIMH

Ah, yes, it's Frank who is the fount of all knowledge

But take your argument to its logical conclusion then if there were only a couple of hundred cabs in Edinburgh and a thousand bogus/unlicensed cars in the city then sexual crime would remain the same?

I doubt it. And you still have the problem of the Scottish Government's BPG, Frank, and the significance of what it says about public safety. If it's wrong, have you taken this up with the SG?

What about the London minicab sector's historic reputation for sexual crime? Problem here is an overregulated taxi sector and an underregulated minicab sector, but it makes no difference whether the constraint on taxi supply is due to a three year knowledge test or a numbers restriction, the result is a second or even third tier which is required to meet demand, and this is clearly to the public detriment.

Of course, common sense dictates that it's not just Edinburgh and in London this happens, it's throughout the world. Take this page from Wikipeidia, for example, about medallion (plate) systems in North America:

The medallion system has several effects upon the illegal transportation market. By acting as a barrier to entry to the taxi market, it has the unintended consequence of creating a market for unlicensed cabs, especially in areas that tend to be underserved by medallion cabs. Taxi medallions tend to increase in value over time, and their owners and lessees tend to be very eager to protect their exclusive rights, for example, by lobbying for stricter enforcement against unlicensed cabs.





You mean like a London black cab site? For example, I think the LTDA have had several poster campaigns about sexual crime and minicabs.

So why shouldn't the trade here discuss it?

You no doubt want to ignore it because it doesn't suit your purpsose, but why isn't the SG's GPG and what happened in Edinburgh a suitable topic for discussion?

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Caledonian Cabbie

You sound very like jimmy boy, so I was thinking of some of the porn sites out there for the likes of you, if that is what floats your boat.
jimmy boy probably has a list of them.

You seem obsessed with porn and denying the facts about a serious sexual assualt.

And to think Toots is siding with you.

Sad or what?

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Caledonian Cabbie

By the way, if you look back at my old posts you'll probably see that I was banging the drum against restricted numbers long before T&T were.

But that's the problem with lots of people like yourself, you think that the whole world loves what you advocate, and that only the odd freak thinks otherwise.

Time to wise up.

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Caledonian Cabbie

Well, it seems like you are an odd freak.

Far from it.

In England and Wales only 25% of council restrict, thus 75% of your colleagues down here don't need the protection to earn a living that you are desperate to keep.

And all those 10s of 1000s of PH that have never been restricted also don't need the protection to earn a living that you are desperate to keep.

In truth Frank, you are one of the odd freaks.

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IDFIMH

Oh dear. I've only been debating with you for a few hours and already you're resorting to abuse.

Pehaps that's why T&T have resorted to their debating style if they've had to put up with years of the likes of you Frank.

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Caledonian Cabbie

I didn't misrepresent the point by saying it doesn't stop rape at all, cos it doesn't, so it's not misrepresented. To claim that it would prevent rapes or reduce rapes without facts to support that opinion is a misrepresentation.



I didn't describe taxi drivers driving their own taxis as a free for all I described de-restriction as a free for all. The two do not necessarily go hand in hand, we have drivers here that still rent cabs even though we're de-restricted.



I don't have a personal opinion of Taylor and Thomson cos I don't know them other than I don't agree with them using rape as a means to an end. BPG doesn't say you shouldn't restrict plates, but, if you are going to you should do a SUD which I do believe Edinburgh did. That survey said that another 30 plates should be issued, which again, I do believe Edinburgh did.



I wasn't suggesting that you could or should stop people from hailing taxis on the street. I was merely pointing out that having a safe place to wait on the street for a taxi is a good idea and reduces risks.



Now who's being silly? The chances are the answer to both questions is never ever. No problem with that unless of course you're using rape as a means to get more taxis on the road. Unless you're prepared to do everything you can to protect these vunerable drunk young girls get home safely, but hey, that's not a taxi drivers job is it unless they are getting paid for it



It took me a while work this part of your argument out but it's always been down to a perv being a perv that is why girls need to be educated and why I think rank marshalls are a good idea when it comes to public safety when waiting on the streets late at night. I think I've already address your point about BPG



What about them? Are you suggesting that the trade should provide free taxis for the drunk and reckless females I certainly wasn't.



Who cares so long as young girls get home safely without being raped because that is the current crux of the argument for more taxis on the road



I think you will find that guessing what would happen if something else happened isn't really a good argument. Stick to the facts as you have asked me to do.



Do you? I think you will find that the two main reasons that encourages illegal plying for hire are lack of enforcement and lack of work, but, I could be wrong. I think you will find that the purpose of making ph recognisable was to help the public know what is a licenced vehicle so that they are less likely to get in to Mr Pervs vehicle



I'm not blaming anything I was just pointing out that there are lots of factors to be considered when you are trying to protect the public and not just one thing such as the BPG is the answer. So lets address the BPG again. Common sense to me is, do a survey, get result of unmet demand, meet unmet demand which in the case of Edinburgh was 30 more licences required, so 30 more licences were issued. Seems like commonsense to me, but again I could be wrong and it is only my opinion.

I have no reason to be bias in any way cos I can do whatever I please here. I have both licences, I have the means to drive a WAV or a saloon, I'm not 'plate baron' nor would I want to be, I earn enough money from ph for my needs and I don't work in Edinburgh so whether it's restricted or not is of no conseqence to me in the slightest. So I really don't know why you think my opinion is bias

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Again I was just pointing out from experience that de-restriction does not necessarily reduce ph. In fact since taxis here were de-restricted ph has doubled. Partly due to the lack of work for HC's, drivers took out loans for new cabs when we were de-restricted, the market was flooded and we hit a recession, drivers handed back cabs so then couldn't get finance for another vehicle and consquently are now renting a phv and paying settle to operator companies and working silly hours to be able to do this it's not good. Of the remaining 230 odd HC's now working here 93 of them are also paying to work on the PH system that I work from and there are others on other systems. I wonder why that might be It certainly isn't because de-restriction works



I'm not selective in my arguments I support I'm selective in the arguments I have an opinion about, is this wrong?

The police here warned the council that it would be detrimental to the public and road safety to de-restrict but they did it anyway. I haven't dismissed anything out of hand I have expressed my opinion through experience of working in a de-restricted area. I haven't ignored BPG I just didn't bring it in to my opinion that's all



I'm not fixated with Taylor I'm not entirely sure which one is which if the truth be known I will have been commenting on something that was said and if that was by Taylor then it will have been aimed at him, is that a problem?



I'm not saying that at all me thinks you has twisted my meaning to suit your argument



There you go again twisty twisty how naughty are you

generally I do I didn't think it would be for a minute and so it should be, that's what they are there for





If I knew that I wouldn't say "there has to be another solution" I would say "there is another solution" now wouldn't I?



Was there any need for that really? At least now I know how low you go!! You must dizzy with all this twisting

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!