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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:26 pm 
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toots wrote:
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I might disagree with Toots, but at least she tries to offer a decent argument.


Debate wouldn't be debate without differing opinions. IMO not only do I try but I succeed in offering a decent argument and I do it all without lowering to verbal abuse. Although I did question some morals :wink:


Not that decent, though, but I'll have to leave the rest of your post till later :D

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:45 pm 
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Caledonian Cabbie wrote:
toots wrote:


No sleep lost it just wasn't that important. It did however come to me, but, not in a eureka moment :D


So not that interesting then, or you would have shared it with us :wink:


Oh well if you must know I shall bore with the details. It was reminiscent of when I trained for my legal executive qualification. Presented in the way a solicitor may do, just ever so slightly, not completely :D

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:40 pm 
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toots wrote:
Caledonian Cabbie wrote:
toots wrote:
No sleep lost it just wasn't that important. It did however come to me, but, not in a eureka moment :D

So not that interesting then, or you would have shared it with us :wink:

Oh well if you must know I shall bore with the details. It was reminiscent of when I trained for my legal executive qualification. Presented in the way a solicitor may do, just ever so slightly, not completely :D

Uuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, look at you!!

You had legal executive training did you?

You're a real 'dark horse' aren't you!!!

:shock: :shock: :shock:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:42 pm 
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Brummie Cabbie wrote:
toots wrote:
Caledonian Cabbie wrote:
toots wrote:
No sleep lost it just wasn't that important. It did however come to me, but, not in a eureka moment :D

So not that interesting then, or you would have shared it with us :wink:

Oh well if you must know I shall bore with the details. It was reminiscent of when I trained for my legal executive qualification. Presented in the way a solicitor may do, just ever so slightly, not completely :D

Uuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, look at you!!

You had legal executive training did you?

You're a real 'dark horse' aren't you!!!

:shock: :shock: :shock:
You mean to say you haven't.... what is the world coming to.... :shock: :shock:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:45 pm 
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MR T wrote:
Brummie Cabbie wrote:
toots wrote:
Caledonian Cabbie wrote:
toots wrote:
No sleep lost it just wasn't that important. It did however come to me, but, not in a eureka moment :D

So not that interesting then, or you would have shared it with us :wink:

Oh well if you must know I shall bore with the details. It was reminiscent of when I trained for my legal executive qualification. Presented in the way a solicitor may do, just ever so slightly, not completely :D

Uuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, look at you!!

You had legal executive training did you?

You're a real 'dark horse' aren't you!!!

:shock: :shock: :shock:

You mean to say you haven't.... what is the world coming to.... :shock: :shock:

Nah, them lawyer & solicitor think they are Parliament & judges; full of their own mis-guided importance.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:48 pm 
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Caledonian Cabbie wrote:
"Stonewalling", "waffle", "regugitation", "assumptions"....

That's no way to talk about Toots, lads :lol:

But it's a bit pathetic of those who can't even rise to the level of "waffle" and "regurgitation" to accuse others of doing it.

Your case would be promoted more by saying nothing rather than bitching from the sidelines :-#

I might disagree with Toots, but at least she tries to offer a decent argument.
So if a person refuses to be drawn into regurgitated waffle they are pathetic.... I would have thought they just had good common sense..... more painting tomorrow :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:53 pm 
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MR T wrote:
So if a person refuses to be drawn into regurgitated waffle they are pathetic.... I would have thought they just had good common sense..... more painting tomorrow :wink:

Watching Paint Dry

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:06 am 
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Brummie Cabbie wrote:
toots wrote:
Caledonian Cabbie wrote:
toots wrote:
No sleep lost it just wasn't that important. It did however come to me, but, not in a eureka moment :D

So not that interesting then, or you would have shared it with us :wink:

Oh well if you must know I shall bore with the details. It was reminiscent of when I trained for my legal executive qualification. Presented in the way a solicitor may do, just ever so slightly, not completely :D

Uuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, look at you!!

You had legal executive training did you?

You're a real 'dark horse' aren't you!!!

:shock: :shock: :shock:


I've always had a lot of time on my hands so I had to fill it with something :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:19 am 
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toots wrote:

Anyway back to BPG. This is of course only a guide and will be judged by it's extent of achieving it's aims due to it being open to interpretation of the whole document and not just one paragraph that mentions onerous licencing conditions. It's difficult to obtain a unified agreement as to what the guidance really means so the following is of course only my opinion of the guidance intention.


Well said - at least we can broadly agree on something.


Quote:
When referring to onerous licencing conditions it's not just referring to restriction. One has to consider the wider implecations of de-restriction and not just the ability of a person being able to obtain a vehicle licence. I think it is fair to say that if a district does restrict it's vehicle licences having had a SUD then it has met it's obligation under the guidance. There you go that's me done on my opinion of the BPG and how it relates to restriction.


I think you're placing too much emphasis on the SUD issue, which is a crude legislative test relevant only if the council wants to restrict numbers. The BPG is more about policy than crude law, and rather than a simplistic attempt to match taxi supply and demand it requires looking at wider issues such as the safety aspect and thus the basic question of whether to restrict. Strictly speaking the SUD test doesn't look at these wider aspects.

Quote:
With regard to how they issue further plates and to whom is a different matter and there is no guidance available for that. However it's my opinion that plates should not be sold in any way shape or form. Vehicles should not be allowed to be sold with existing plates on them. If the owner of the plate no longer wishes to be a plate holder they should legally be required to return the plate to the licence department and it should then be offered to the person at the top of the list if such list exists. I do not condone any practice that involves the selling of plates. It's also my opinion that one person only requires one plate because they can only drive one vehicle, therefore mulitiple applications by one person need not be considered.


To an extent I agree with where you're coming from, but that would require changes to the law, but these aren't on the table just now.

But simply barring plate sales won't work, because that's been tried in several Scottish areas, and the licence holders will just keep hold of them until they die - perhaps decades after they leave the trade - so instead of profiting from a sale they profit from the rental, so to that extent it's no improvement.

Quote:
An alternative to total de-restriction is managed growth. If they issue a set amount of plates per year until such time as it is quite obvious there would be no benefit whatsoever to the public, this is surely a better option than total de-restriction, but again that is only my opinion.


Which is supposedly what's happened in Edinburgh over past years. In which case the main growth is in the number of hired drivers, the number of PH and the size of plate premiums.

Quote:
Just for the record I never intended to question the efficacy of the advice given by the BPG. I questioned the morality of using rape as a means to obtain further taxi licences in a restricted area when there is no evidence to show that more taxis do indeed reduce rape.

There is no clear cut evidence to suggest that the risk is reduced either seeing as the reduction in rape cases is not evident in already de-restricted areas


So where precisely can this evidence of no reduction in sexual assaults in derestricted areas be found, Toots?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:38 am 
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[quote="Caledonian Cabbie"] So where precisely can this evidence of no reduction in sexual assaults in derestricted areas be found, Toots?[/quote]


I think it is probably safe to assume that 99.999% of sexual assaults have nothing to do with taxis at all.

So there would be no difference worth mentioning whether they occur in a restricted area or not.

It is a complete red herring, put forward by those sad people who like to feed off such things.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:29 am 
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Quote:
I think you're placing too much emphasis on the SUD issue, which is a crude legislative test relevant only if the council wants to restrict numbers. The BPG is more about policy than crude law, and rather than a simplistic attempt to match taxi supply and demand it requires looking at wider issues such as the safety aspect and thus the basic question of whether to restrict. Strictly speaking the SUD test doesn't look at these wider aspects.


IMO the BPG is more about guidance for policies. I agree it has more to it than the number taxis to be issued with licences. However when you are looking at public safety you also have to consider road safety, environmental safety and vehicle safety. There would be little benefit to the public if the taxi they can get very easily is not maintained to a high and safe level because the owner quite simply does not earn enough money to safely maintain their vehicle. Congestion can cause angry drivers on the road who take risks and cause a danger to the public at large. Over ranking is a problem in de-restricted areas. Cherry picking is a problem in de-restricted areas causing a shortage in supply at quiet times, thus, leaving customers to wait longer than normal periods for a taxi. Working long and unsafe hours is a problem in de-restricted areas. What of effect on users of PHV if all the drivers became taxi providers they could be left waiting long periods of time for the car to arrive.

Quote:
To an extent I agree with where you're coming from, but that would require changes to the law, but these aren't on the table just now.


Perhaps they should be 'put on the table'.

Quote:
Toots:
An alternative to total de-restriction is managed growth. If they issue a set amount of plates per year until such time as it is quite obvious there would be no benefit whatsoever to the public, this is surely a better option than total de-restriction, but again that is only my opinion.

Caledonian Cabbie:
Which is supposedly what's happened in Edinburgh over past years. In which case the main growth is in the number of hired drivers, the number of PH and the size of plate premiums.


I can't really comment as I haven't seen any evidence to support this.

Quote:
So where precisely can this evidence of no reduction in sexual assaults in derestricted areas be found, Toots?


The official crime figures for rape have shown no significant reduction in this crime throughout the UK. Neither do the unofficial figures. Since the figures cover the whole of the UK it would cover the de-restricted areas as well as restricted areas

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