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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:04 am 
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captain cab wrote:
Skull wrote:
I am all for alternative thinking. However, Dougie thinks he's come up with a viable alternative to a restricted market. This is not the rational of a sane person.
:-|


Have you seen the completed version?

I suspect you havent, there is something clearly wrong with the current system where a council issue a plate freely and then a person can sell it on for many thousands of pounds within minutes.

If a council can sell the licenses and keep a care home open then surely thats got to be an improvement.

CC


Well, let's go for a really radical alternative of allowing qualified drivers unfettered access to the tools of their trade.

Just think CC, drivers would be able to rent or own, and they'd be doing the same job.

:shock:

Sounds like the makings of a plan to me CC. :shock: :D

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:16 am 
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Skull wrote:
Well, let's go for a really radical alternative of allowing qualified drivers unfettered access to the tools of their trade.

Just think CC, drivers would be able to rent or own, and they'd be doing the same job.

:shock:

Sounds like the makings of a plan to me CC. :shock: :D


Then why dont you submit that?

Personally, I think taxi numbers need to be limited, especially in a City such as Edinburgh, where delimitation would see a 50% increase in taxi numbers within months.

The experience with total delimitation in both Liverpool and Cardiff suggests it is an abject failure.

CC

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:24 am 
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captain cab wrote:
Skull wrote:
Well, let's go for a really radical alternative of allowing qualified drivers unfettered access to the tools of their trade.

Just think CC, drivers would be able to rent or own, and they'd be doing the same job.

:shock:

Sounds like the makings of a plan to me CC. :shock: :D


Then why dont you submit that?

Personally, I think taxi numbers need to be limited, especially in a City such as Edinburgh, where delimitation would see a 50% increase in taxi numbers within months.

The experience with total delimitation in both Liverpool and Cardiff suggests it is an abject failure.

CC


Did I forget to mention quality controls, as a barrier to drivers entering the trade, just like any other professional trade?





:-|

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:32 am 
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Skull wrote:
Did I forget to mention quality controls, as a barrier to drivers entering the trade, just like any other professional trade?


:-|


Yes you did.

You presume Dougie hasn't / wont include quality controls as a prerequisite of his idea?

CC

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:36 am 
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captain cab wrote:
Skull wrote:
Did I forget to mention quality controls, as a barrier to drivers entering the trade, just like any other professional trade?


:-|


Yes you did.

You presume Dougie hasn't / wont include quality controls as a prerequisite of his idea?

CC


Dougie is as mad as a bag of ferrets, and I've seen the things he writes to politicians. :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:46 am 
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Skull wrote:
Dougie is as mad as a bag of ferrets, and I've seen the things he writes to politicians. :roll:


I used to keep ferrets and go rabbiting with them, the fun I had as rabbits bolted into nets and I broke their necks, I'd then gut the rabbits and feed their intestines to the ferrets.

Then skin the rabbits and cook them. Great days.

Vicious little b*stards those ferrets though.

That aside, and thanks for the memories, a person is entitled to write to politicians, Jaspar does all the time.

CC

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:08 am 
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captain cab wrote:
Skull wrote:
Dougie is as mad as a bag of ferrets, and I've seen the things he writes to politicians. :roll:


I used to keep ferrets and go rabbiting with them, the fun I had as rabbits bolted into nets and I broke their necks, I'd then gut the rabbits and feed their intestines to the ferrets.

Then skin the rabbits and cook them. Great days.

Vicious little b*stards those ferrets though.

That aside, and thanks for the memories, a person is entitled to write to politicians, Jaspar does all the time.

CC


He might well, but when you read Dougie's letters you have no doubt they are written by someone who is completely off his head. :-|

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:13 am 
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Skull wrote:
He might well, but when you read Dougie's letters you have no doubt they are written by someone who is completely off his head. :-|


I haven't seen any letters, from memory there's none on here.

But, for what its worth, I'll help him in any way I can to develop something to propose to the LA concerned, I might even put the end product in taxitalk to stimulate debate.

CC

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:18 am 
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captain cab wrote:
Skull wrote:
He might well, but when you read Dougie's letters you have no doubt they are written by someone who is completely off his head. :-|


I haven't seen any letters, from memory there's none on here.

But, for what its worth, I'll help him in any way I can to develop something to propose to the LA concerned, I might even put the end product in taxitalk to stimulate debate.

CC


Be my guest :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: that I would love to see :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You'll end up, locked up alongside Dougie.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:22 am 
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Skull wrote:
Be my guest :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: that I would love to see :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You'll end up, locked up alongside Dougie.


Maybe.

But then again, it'll be more in one issue than jaspar has achieved in his life......which is quite funny :lol:

CC

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:35 am 
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toots wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think you may find that the best practise guidance would consider that an onerus condition, in fact, I think best practise would consider most of this an onerus condition, but, I agree that drivers need to be trained and educated in the trade they intend to work.


So what. Council's pick and choose which parts of Best Practice to adopt as it suits them. That's why they can ignore the warning that restriction can place the public at risk.

What's important is not Best Practice, but Human Rights. And this is where we are heading.


So you think it's ok to ignore the bits you don't want to know about and only go with the parts that suit your argument at the time?

Quote:
Hopefully it would ensure that decisions taken with the trade were always rationally and fiscally sound.


I'm not entirely sure you understood what I meant, but, no matter. Using your answer as a guide nobody in their right mind would rationally or fiscally make a decision that de-restriction was a sound one.

This of course was a hyperthetical discussion regarding what standards you thought would be best for drivers if de-restriction was to come to Edinburgh. It's a shame even in this discussion you can't help but insult can you :roll:


Again, I must quote Dufresne in Shawshank redemption, "Are you being deliberately obtuse".

De-restriction is inevitable. Restriction is immoral.

You would porefer females being raped to preserve a vested interest.

You are immoral.

Doesn't get any more difficult than that.

And that is precisely why you are NOT a female, but a liar.

:roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:38 am 
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captain cab wrote:
Skull wrote:
Be my guest :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: that I would love to see :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You'll end up, locked up alongside Dougie.


Maybe.

But then again, it'll be more in one issue than jaspar has achieved in his life......which is quite funny :lol:

CC


CC, you appear to be confusing me with someone who cares.

You believe that rape is reasonable. Now trot off to yuor wife and tell her.

Then let us know what she thinks.

You do have a wife :wink:

Or, is it just Dougie :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:35 am 
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Jasbar wrote:
So how does this sit with the requirement that licensing is not for profit and fees should only cover the cost of licensing?

LAs don't have the legal authority to raise money from licensing, any form of licensing.

Indeed, some years ago a surplus built up in Edinburgh's taxi licensing which the council repaid to licence holders through a restriction in fees.

Dougie's aspiration of a medallion system is a non-starter.



Well the point is that in essence there's no difference between what Reggie calls a medallion system in the USA and what we call restricted numbers here. A medallion is just the US version of a plate, and if we used the term 'plate system' to describe what happens in cities like Edinburgh and Manchester then that would be cause confusion, because all licensing authorities in the UK use plates.

'Medallion system' is thus just confusing matters, in the same way that 'deregulation' should more accurately be called derestriction or delimitation of taxi numbers, because that's what's normally meant by the term deregulation in the taxi context.

Thus what Reggie more accurately wants is the New York variation on the restricted numbers gig, whereby new issues are sold by the issuing authority at around the market rate.

Of course, the reason Reggie thinks this is a good idea is because he knows such a system in Edinburgh would legitimise restricted numbers, helped along by reference to helping 'community projects', or whatever, and thus set restricted numbers in stone, rather than the creaking edifice that's currently in situ.

By the same token, he knows that CEC wouldn't issue too many plates under such a system, because that would dilute the revenues, so it would be win-win for Reggie - restricted numbers becomes legitimised and set in stone, and the threat of derestriction would recede, plus the council wouldn't issue too many plates, thus incumbent plate holders would suffer only slightly, but even any slight diminution in plate values would be worth it to eliminate the risk of the plug being pulled.

Same with this idea of issuing unlimited plates at the current going rate. Er, wouldn't this mean that no one would want a new plate? #-o

Anyway, this would require a change in the legislation, but to that extent that might thrust a whole can of worms into the public domain, so perhaps Reggie should be careful what he wishes for.

On the other hand, in principle it's perhaps not that far-fetched. For example, a few years ago the Westminster Govt raised billions by selling of restricted access to the 3G spectrum, and selling off taxi plates in a restricted market wouldn't really be a whole lot different.

Pretty unlikely, however, but given the pressures on the public purse that will become increasingly evident in the next few years then who knows what will happen?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:25 am 
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captain cab wrote:
Skull wrote:
He might well, but when you read Dougie's letters you have no doubt they are written by someone who is completely off his head. :-|


I haven't seen any letters, from memory there's none on here.

But, for what its worth, I'll help him in any way I can to develop something to propose to the LA concerned, I might even put the end product in taxitalk to stimulate debate.

CC

CC Skull is bluffing about reading my (alledged letters) to politicians, he is bluffing about his un-feetered access crap, him and his one mate are just trying to pi-s CEC off in the hope CEC get fed up and de-restrict, he is a poor bluffer and we in Edinburgh can see through him.

I think your idea of debating through Taxi Talk the New York system will be refreshing, the idea needs to viewed by the whole trade in the uk as there is massive benefits, Caledonian Cabbie makes great points concerning a system that ends all debates concerning the state of our trade as it is.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:48 am 
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Caledonian Cabbie wrote:
Jasbar wrote:
So how does this sit with the requirement that licensing is not for profit and fees should only cover the cost of licensing?

LAs don't have the legal authority to raise money from licensing, any form of licensing.

Indeed, some years ago a surplus built up in Edinburgh's taxi licensing which the council repaid to licence holders through a restriction in fees.

Dougie's aspiration of a medallion system is a non-starter.



Well the point is that in essence there's no difference between what Reggie calls a medallion system in the USA and what we call restricted numbers here. A medallion is just the US version of a plate, and if we used the term 'plate system' to describe what happens in cities like Edinburgh and Manchester then that would be cause confusion, because all licensing authorities in the UK use plates.

'Medallion system' is thus just confusing matters, in the same way that 'deregulation' should more accurately be called derestriction or delimitation of taxi numbers, because that's what's normally meant by the term deregulation in the taxi context.

Thus what Reggie more accurately wants is the New York variation on the restricted numbers gig, whereby new issues are sold by the issuing authority at around the market rate.

Of course, the reason Reggie thinks this is a good idea is because he knows such a system in Edinburgh would legitimise restricted numbers, helped along by reference to helping 'community projects', or whatever, and thus set restricted numbers in stone, rather than the creaking edifice that's currently in situ.

By the same token, he knows that CEC wouldn't issue too many plates under such a system, because that would dilute the revenues, so it would be win-win for Reggie - restricted numbers becomes legitimised and set in stone, and the threat of derestriction would recede, plus the council wouldn't issue too many plates, thus incumbent plate holders would suffer only slightly, but even any slight diminution in plate values would be worth it to eliminate the risk of the plug being pulled.

Same with this idea of issuing unlimited plates at the current going rate. Er, wouldn't this mean that no one would want a new plate? #-o

Anyway, this would require a change in the legislation, but to that extent that might thrust a whole can of worms into the public domain, so perhaps Reggie should be careful what he wishes for.

On the other hand, in principle it's perhaps not that far-fetched. For example, a few years ago the Westminster Govt raised billions by selling of restricted access to the 3G spectrum, and selling off taxi plates in a restricted market wouldn't really be a whole lot different.

Pretty unlikely, however, but given the pressures on the public purse that will become increasingly evident in the next few years then who knows what will happen?

Your assessment of my view is spot on the money :D

What i'm looking to achieve is compromise of Edinburgh's current system, there is no going back, CEC have to accept the situation which i believe they do, CEC now have to go to a form of restriction that TIGHTENS THE GRIP as far as restriction of numbers goes, The Medallion system is the answer, a few tweaks here and there and BINGO we have a much clearer system where we operators know the rules of the game, if we buy into it fair enough but if we don't then that's tough, the Medallion system operates much fairer and without discrimination, it works in restricted markets and de-restricted markets.

Infiltrator's, Profiteers and abusers have been RAPING our system for years, the system that allows this must be changed, The Medallion system is the COMPROMISE to achieve change :)

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