Taxi Driver Online

If the vehicles are illegally plying......as many claim and evidence bears out....the enforcement would solve it to a degree.

Of course, if Berwick had a local knowledge test in place then the chances are the majority of vehicles formerly licensed in Newcastle and North tyneside wouldnt have licensed themselves there.

Furthermore, the Berwick judgement allows a question to be asked as to where the licensee intends to use the vehicle the majority of the time.

As I have stated myself......the laws are already there.....its a matter of enforcing them.

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Well I don't think enforcing the plying rules would stop it, as you yourself concede.

And that would be irrelevant to PH flags of convenience anyway.

Why isn't the law in the Berwick case not applied then - perhaps because it was a dodgy interpretation and wouldn't stand up to appeal?

Enforcement would just be scratching the surface, I suspect.

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Caledonian Cabbie

You are entitled to you're opinion.

PH flags are a matter of enforcement.

I don't agree in respect of Berwick. And even then, wouldnt that be up to a judge to decide upon a refusal?

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Thanks.

.

Why? Are you suggesting Delta are breaking the law operating in Liverpool out of Sefton?




So has the Berwick decision made any difference on the ground?

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Caledonian Cabbie

In answer to your questions, apart from the folded arms and shaking your head bit.

Quite the contrary, there is nothing illegal in what DELTA are doing, enforcement is in respect of vehicles illegally plying.

In respect to differences on the ground. Too early to tell


If the LA's had anything about them then yes, it should make a difference......facing facts, asking the applicant to name the nearest pub to the council offices would at least be a measure that they are attempting to raise standards.

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

But that's nowt to do with enforcement, that's quality control - a different argument entirely.

Thus the, er, Reiver is talking bullocks.

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Caledonian Cabbie

Again I'll try to answer point by point.

No it wouldnt, unless you're suggesting DELTA are operating illegally.

The court case was 2009 I think.

I dont think he or she is, I think they are making numerous points.

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Oh go one then



Er, no. Indeed, that was my point, they're not operating illegally, thus enforcement wouldn't make a whole lot of difference to the flag of convenience problem.



So two years then, and any significant change since?



Talking out of their bahookie, you mean.

Some good points in the article, but one of the central premises - that enforcement would sort the 'flag of convenience' problem - is bullocks.

Good phrase that, though: 'flag of convenience'. Whoever thought of that one deserves a lollipop. At least.

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Caledonian Cabbie

Interestingly, if the CGSA applied south of the border, this would be illegal

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http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/

Indeed, but I don't suppose anyone pointed out that fact at the TransComm meeting, despite the point having been made on here before quite a few times.

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Caledonian Cabbie

It got rid of the Berwick LO who started all this mess, and over time the number of taxis licensed has halved, so they are on the right track.

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IDFIMH

I disagree with the points you make and there are two separate issues, one being PH and the other being HC.

The issue regarding DELTA is that there vehicles are parked up virtually 100% of the time in Liverpool......a different licensing area as you know.

This isn't illegal as you know.

The issue of enforcement is that local authorities already have the power to enforce the law, should those vehicles act illegally. In my view taking this before Transcomm was foolish.

I think the term flag of convenience is a good one and pertinent to the matter at hand, people out there are sourcing taxi licenses from local authorities that have sh*t standards......it was Berwick yesterday and god knows where tomorrow, either way, if that is legal, then it again comes down to enforcement and enforcing laws as they currently stand.

CC

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Interesting, but it would be interesting to know precisely why this has happened.

For example, by making it more difficult administratively for 'flags of convenience'?

By applying the 'law' as stated in the relevant legal case?

Or perhaps those using the loophole decided that it just wasn't such a good idea after all? It certainly always seemed a bit of a nonsense to me, although of course there are numerous different scenarios under which the Berwick option might have been considered. For example, perhaps some drivers thought a Berwich HC might have facilitated illegal plying in their own area rather than one of their own PH plates, but perhaps they were caught out in this regard.

Was never over-convinced by what the judge said in the case either. It looked like a simple loophole, and the judge trying to block it using methods which might not have stood up to examination in a higher court?

By the same token, is there anything in the current law to stop LAs doing a Berwick if they want to?

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Caledonian Cabbie

So Delta parking up in Liverpool, is an issue, but isn't illegal, yet you think enforcement is the answer?

Doesn't make sense.

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Caledonian Cabbie

There are lots of places where you can park in Liverpool without obviously plying for hire. It's not illegal to wait in Liverpool but it is illegal to ply for hire, hence the enforcement. Having said that I'm sure Delta cars could park up the road within their boundary and still cover Liverpool centre within 5 mins, so I don' see the need for so many of them sitting around in the city centre. Liverpool cabbies are not the only drivers to suffer at the hands of Delta drivers. It takes us longer to get to Liverpool and our pre booked fares. Delta drivers sit at our chosen pick up points, the rest is speculation

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Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!