Taxi Driver Online

The Law Commission proposals have caused quite a stir in the world of taxis it seems. Even the meanest taxi proprietor/employer has suddenly woken up to the fact that they are facing extinction if the LC get their way.
Extinction by the way, is the future if all the outcomes are met, so if you haven't got the stomach for a fight, then you may as well head for the Job Centre.
The days of the iconic Black Cab are numbered if you ask me, as the cheaper, free market friendly, profit making, more modern and forward thinking Private Hire Companies prepare to take the spoils.
All because, the Taxi Trade has had it so good for so long, that the trade representatives forgot to make plans for the future. Instead of looking forwards they got too comfortable and then all of the sudden, a dirty great pudd'n!
Fingers can be pointed and blame can be apportioned, I mean taking advice from and trusting Louise Ellman? Sheesh!
But it is what it is and now the time has come for the Taxi Trade to act as it should have done years ago, by flexing its muscles on a national level, in rejection of the proposals that WILL destroy the trade.
Same Demo, Different City!
Every city stitched up at the same time. Simply, disable the country and tell the LC to stop interfering and start listening.
It can be done and frankly it has to be, or all is lost I fear.
I'm looking for feedback on this, so as to gauge opinion.
Will you fight?

http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtop ... =1&t=15737

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011

Be Careful what you wish for

By

Wayne Casey

By the time you read this magazine your future could be sealed. You could be heading towards oblivion and your future could be in the hands of others.

You see, due to pressure the Transport Select committee are to look into the taxi and private hire trades. Whilst they will primarily be looking into cross border hiring issues with Private Hire vehicles, they will also be open to suggestions and input from any concerned persons into the taxi and private hire trades.

Not scared yet? You should be.

What will happen if, and I have every reason to expect they will, the large private hire companies across the country actually get themselves involved and tell the select committee they cant get on with their business properly due to (and in their opinion) silly licensing rules?

What will happen if the licensing officer groups and local government write into the committee and say the system is a mess and in need of a total shake up?

The fact the taxi trade itself seem to have brought it to the attention of the Committee suggests they (some in the taxi trade) already think its worthy of consideration by the government.

So, you’ve got three groups, maybe more, all banging on the government door saying the current licensing system isn’t good, isn’t workable and it needs overhauled, what do you thinks going to happen, more importantly, do you actually care?

Well you should. If the select committee advise the government that the system is in meltdown, the government may be forced into a cab act. But I fear this act won’t be a thing that any of you will like.

Would a new act retain limitation of numbers? Would a new act decide cross border hiring is a bad thing, particularly if the licensed vehicle is pre-booked? Would a new act see the need to even have a two tier system?

Lots of questions, not too many answers.

Those of you that want new legislation point towards the 1847 act as being out of date. Yes, the act was around before the Crimean War, but the question we should ask is why? Why has this act lasted 164 years when so many others have come and gone?

Those people who want a new act should look through the 1847 act and think what they would replace it with.

For example, section 62 of the act makes it an offence to leave a cab attended at a place of public resort. This was originally intended to avoid horses wandering off and becoming a nuisance, yet it is still used in cases where drivers leave cabs unattended on ranks. Are we saying we want cabs unattended on ranks whilst drivers go shopping?

Section 53 makes it an offence to refuse to take a passenger to a destination within the prescribed area (without reasonable excuse). Are people suggesting drivers should be able to cherrypick fares?

Section 54 makes it an offence for a driver to demand more than the agreed fare. Do people want the taxi trade to have the ability to demand more money?

I could carry on, but I’d only be pointing out further examples of workable legislation. Any new legislation wouldn’t surely go beyond the driver being fit and proper with the vehicle being fit for purpose. Justifiably, the fitness and propriety of both driver and vehicle is always open to interpretation.

One expert, James TH Button, stated in his (infamous) book that in his opinion taxi law was outdated and there was no substitute for modern legislation. Really Jim? There’s one chapter in the Equality Act 2010 dedicated to taxis, and this has created more confusion and more ambiguity than any previous act known to taxis (save for section 16 of the 1985 transport act).

Indeed, if you can all recall section 52 of the Road Safety Act and the use of immediate suspensions. Everybody thought this was going to be used for serious offences, unfortunately they didn’t actually factor in some councils being slightly retarded.

Am I really to trust the draftsman or local authorities given the above examples with new legislation? I seriously don't think so.

The fact of the matter is that if a person in Liverpool wants to pre-book a private hire vehicle from Sefton they can, whatever new act is worked out, phone for a vehicle from another area. If the people of the Wirral go into Liverpool for a night out, and don't want a Liverpool Hackney Carriage, possibly due to an unfortunate experience involving going through a tunnel, they will continue to call a private hire vehicle. That is called customer choice, and there’s nothing a government can do about someone’s choice.

Furthermore, if any part of the act is going to be looked at, it’s more than likely to factor in changes that would benefit private hire. For a hackney carriage people to suggest a PH car should return to its area when its completed a fare, knowing full well there’s a pre-booked job in the next street in half an hours time, isn’t only folly, its bordering on sheer stupidity.

Indeed, current legislation forbids private hire operators passing bookings on to other private hire operators across district borders. This is permitted in the London Private Hire act, but not the 1976 act. If this changes we could well see large national private hire companies.

To my knowledge only the National Taxi Association are currently opposed to wholesale change in legislation and they appear to be akin to King Canute, their opposition, given their size, will be as ineffectual as England’s recent world cup bid, unless of course people begin to take this threat as serious and join the body.

I summed all this up recently when I said;

“Local Authorities have every tool available already at their disposal, from the 1847 act onwards, they have guidance from government and numerous conditions they could apply to both hackney proprietors and private hire licensing, yet for some reason some people out there are trying to convince government things need changed. Changed to what exactly? Is any new act going to stray from drivers being fit and proper and vehicles being in decent order? I’m convinced people out there are mad.”

It appears to me that a good number of people in the hackney carriage trade look down their noses at private hire, the reality is that private hire are much better funded than the hackney trade. For example, how many thousands of pounds were invested in lobbying to get private hire removed from the equality act?

Do people seriously expect the private hire trade to sit down doing nothing as the hackney carriage trade try to dictate?

Believe that and you need a bib.

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

There you again separating the trade and causing conflict. Do you think the taxi drivers are the only ones that will suffer if the proposals are met? If taxi drivers could, just for once, stop considering the private hire drivers as the problem and enlisted their help as well it would be a demonstration worth seeing.

_________________
Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

That article appeared on here and in taxitalk magazine well over a year ago; so please dont allude that the trade representative organisations haven't warned of the dangers of meddling about with taxi legislation, because certainly the National Taxi Association have and they were a lone voice.

The Law Commissions provisional proposals appear to have been written by operators; as predicted in the above article.

The Law Commissions proposals appear to legalise cross border; as predicted in the above article.

The Law Commissions proposals suggest nationwide delimitation; as predicted in the above article.

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

I can't speak for the PH because Ive never worked as one and don't see their side of it.
I would though say this, that in Liverpool, HC and PH who hold city badges get along fine, it's the cross border hire PH who have messed it up, that's why we campaigned in the first place, the trouble is Ellman led us up the garden path and here we all are! At the gates of oblivion.
I believe that a two tier system properly policed and licenced works.
So I'm Not against PH, I just want licences to mean something ie LOCAL KNOWLEDGE!!!!
But hey I'll come and work London at the weekends though! Get my drift?
Local cabs for local people!

what on earth did you expect?

Ironically the chap that wrote the above article has a plate valued at £35

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

As a Wirral ph driver I know only too well some of the issues that passengers have trying to get home That aside if I drop a customer in Liverpool I see no reason why I shouldn't pick them back up, providing of course it is fully booked. I do understand how frustrating it is to have ph vehicles sitting around the cobbles, the Blob Shop and St Johns to name a few, but, I can't help thinking that the taxis in Liverpool didn't help their own cause and now are reaping the rewards for this. I too believe that the 2 tier system works when properly enforced, the Sefton stats for illegal plying for hire by Liverpool taxis shows this

_________________
Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

Those that have any knowledge or interest in the taxi trade around the country are perfectly well aware of who's to blame for the current situation, and Louise Ellman certainly isnt getting fingers pointed at her. Even the Liverpool trade reps have actually stated that they were 'only following orders' as directed by their members......so they're shifting the burden of blame too.

Of course its the rest of us that now have to get some semblence of sanity from all of this sh*t that has been left on our doorsteps.

I cannot believe people would be as stupid to think that private hire operators, especially the large ones who are multi millionaires would sit and watch as elements of the cab trade went about trying to change nay destroy their business - I seriously cannot understand that type of mentality.

If you take the time to read some of the provisional proposals, drink a coffee and think about the possible scenarios that could develop from each proposal, you'll see how much sh*t the taxi and private hire trade are now in.

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

http://www.unitetheunion.org/pdf/024-CT ... 202011.pdf

October 2011 - Nothing like being up to date is there?

Page 12.......

Perhaps you'll tell us more on this blank canvas? because we're all riveted.

BLANK CANVAS FOR UK TAXI TRADE

By DEREK CUMMINS

What started as a campaign by the Liverpool Cab Section branch NW/680 to outlaw the practice of ‘cross border hiring’ by out-of-town private hire vehicles, is set to herald sweeping changes to taxi legislation which could affect every taxi driver in Britain.

Following the findings of the Transport Select Committee, the government have instructed the Law Commission to investigate all legislation that covers both the taxi and private hire trades, and representatives from the Commission have informed the UNITE Union delegation led by the National Taxi Convenor, Tommy McIntyre who is also the Chair of NW/680 Branch, and Mike Hedges LE Cab Trade Committee member that the Commission’s brief is a ‘blank canvas’.

Currently, London has its own Taxi and Private Hire legislation, and Scotland taxi and private hire trades are regulated by the Civic Government Act (1982), whereas in the rest of the UK taxis are regulated by the town Police Clauses Act (1847) and the Private Hire trade is regulated by the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976. The only exception is Plymouth that has its own act to regulate the private hire trade (unsurprisingly called the Plymouth Act 1975). Throw in to the mix chunks of assorted Traffic and other Local Government Acts, the Equality Act etc etc. and it is easy to see why the government wish to simplify the legislation.

However, it was the wide variations in licensing conditions that caused the most concern amongst the committee members; a senior licensing officer from Milton Keynes told the committee that even though they have the highest standards in regards to Milton Keynes’ private hire industry, with age limits on vehicles and stringent ‘fit and proper’ criteria for drivers, all a driver had to do is to go to a neighbouring (usually rural) authority, that has no age limits on vehicles, or knowledge test etc apply to be ‘badged and ‘plated’ and then work exclusively in Milton Keynes.

As stakeholders Unite the Union have put forward a 17 point proposal document aimed at professionalising both the taxi and private hire industries and addressing the fly-by-night nature of some sections of the private hire industry. Tom McIntyre and Mike Hedges have met with representatives of the DfT and the law Commission for preliminary discussions and future meetings have been planned.

The Law Commission’s recommendations are expected to be published in the summer of next year and the Law Commission’s remit is shown below.

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

I take it the 17 point proposal (which presumably is a secret) is contained within the LC's provisional proposals?

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

don't be silly... didn't you see the point about driver training

_________________
Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!

If I'm reading correctly I have a plate worth 35 k?
Ha ha only 15 months out of date, someone is telling porkies!
All I'm saying is this:
We've tried talking
We've tried campaigning
We've tried negotiating
Where has it got us?
Time for action, I've been saying it for 3 years!

You seem to be under the impression that people outside of merseyside actually care about delta?

_________________
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

Who exactly is 'we'? Is it drivers standing around chatting, Unite etc. The only time taxi drivers are interested in what is happening is when it's going to be happening to them. To be fair tho that is the attitude of most people. What exactly are you worried about?

_________________
Note to self: Just because it pops into my head does NOT mean it should come out of my mouth!!

no you had a plate worth 30 k Now it's worth lot less!!

_________________
Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!