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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:05 am 
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Sussex wrote:
No, because working in partnership to the betterment of customers that also leads to the betterment of the trade, is a lot different to the way plate barons act in respect of restrictions.


How do these plate barons act?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:51 am 
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MR T wrote:
The trade didn't ask the Law Commission to rewrite the rules regarding hackney and private hire.... the trade simply wanted the cross border hiring issue sorted out... I am not particularly interested in whether large private hire companies that are basically making huge profits because of the large volume of drivers claiming benefits... or equally as bad drivers from abroad that are used too low wages being brought over here.. living in premises supplied by a offshoot of the company.. 4.5.6 to a house at £100 each a week. my concern is for the full-time professional hackney and private hire driver.. that should be able to work 40 hours a week to make a living wage.... and not 60 to 80 hours a week just to survive.....

Oh but you should be particularly interested, because all the problems that you mention will become infinitely worse if the current Law Commission's proposals are implemented, as they are very heavily skewed in favour of the mega-large PH operators, who in time will gobble up the smaller PH operators and thereby create huge monopolies.

And as someone said recently, "What the diference between paying £200 a week in settle to rent a taxi-cab as opposed to £200 a week in settle to rent a private hire operator's radio?"

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:47 am 
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Sussex wrote:
No, because working in partnership to the betterment of customers that also leads to the betterment of the trade


Does it really? In theory that sounds quite good, have you ever lived with it in practice? All the customer really needs is safe vehicles, safe drivers and low prices. Most if not all areas have safe vehicles and safe drivers (with the odd exception) so the crunch comes when you want low prices. Low prices can only be obtained if there is an abundance of work. When drivers do not earn enough money something has to give and that is usually vehicle safety and/or driver safety (because of the long hours they have to work). I find it strange that one of the only businesses that makes huge profits regardless of sales is the ph trade. If the likes of Tesco/Asda employed staff at the rate ph operators do, well they don't but you know what I mean, they'd go bust and we all know why.

How something can be called a 'free market' when it's costing tax payers millions to subsidise incomes is beyond me and it only shows what a complete failure the 'free market' is and that is not just within the taxi/ph trade.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:51 am 
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toots wrote:
Sussex wrote:
No, because working in partnership to the betterment of customers that also leads to the betterment of the trade

Does it really? In theory that sounds quite good, have you ever lived with it in practice? All the customer really needs is safe vehicles, safe drivers and low prices. Most if not all areas have safe vehicles and safe drivers (with the odd exception) so the crunch comes when you want low prices. Low prices can only be obtained if there is an abundance of work. When drivers do not earn enough money something has to give and that is usually vehicle safety and/or driver safety (because of the long hours they have to work). I find it strange that one of the only businesses that makes huge profits regardless of sales is the ph trade. If the likes of Tesco/Asda employed staff at the rate ph operators do, well they don't but you know what I mean, they'd go bust and we all know why.

How something can be called a 'free market' when it's costing tax payers millions to subsidise incomes is beyond me and it only shows what a complete failure the 'free market' is and that is not just within the taxi/ph trade.

Bloody good post Ms Toots!!

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:07 pm 
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Brummie Cabbie wrote:
MR T wrote:
The trade didn't ask the Law Commission to rewrite the rules regarding hackney and private hire.... the trade simply wanted the cross border hiring issue sorted out... I am not particularly interested in whether large private hire companies that are basically making huge profits because of the large volume of drivers claiming benefits... or equally as bad drivers from abroad that are used too low wages being brought over here.. living in premises supplied by a offshoot of the company.. 4.5.6 to a house at £100 each a week. my concern is for the full-time professional hackney and private hire driver.. that should be able to work 40 hours a week to make a living wage.... and not 60 to 80 hours a week just to survive.....

Oh but you should be particularly interested, because all the problems that you mention will become infinitely worse if the current Law Commission's proposals are implemented, as they are very heavily skewed in favour of the mega-large PH operators, who in time will gobble up the smaller PH operators and thereby create huge monopolies.

And as someone said recently, "What the diference between paying £200 a week in settle to rent a taxi-cab as opposed to £200 a week in settle to rent a private hire operator's radio?"

BC.. I took a copy of the Law Commission's questionnaire to my local MP.. and asked him to fill it out... I left it with him and came back next week... he told me he had absolutely no chance of filling it out and giving: coherent answers.. that would have any value.... now I said to him that over the last 20 years I have worked with him with numerous things concerning the cab trade.. and that he had a greater knowledge than the average cab driver... so if he couldn't answer .... what chance did the ordinary cab driver have.....

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:24 pm 
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toots wrote:
Sussex wrote:
No, because working in partnership to the betterment of customers that also leads to the betterment of the trade


Does it really? In theory that sounds quite good, have you ever lived with it in practice? All the customer really needs is safe vehicles, safe drivers and low prices. Most if not all areas have safe vehicles and safe drivers (with the odd exception) so the crunch comes when you want low prices. Low prices can only be obtained if there is an abundance of work. When drivers do not earn enough money something has to give and that is usually vehicle safety and/or driver safety (because of the long hours they have to work). I find it strange that one of the only businesses that makes huge profits regardless of sales is the ph trade. If the likes of Tesco/Asda employed staff at the rate ph operators do, well they don't but you know what I mean, they'd go bust and we all know why.

How something can be called a 'free market' when it's costing tax payers millions to subsidise incomes is beyond me and it only shows what a complete failure the 'free market' is and that is not just within the taxi/ph trade.

toots.. I often compare the extremely large private hire companies with the mill owners of the last century.... cheap labour and if you don't like it starve....

As you say the company set the rate that the drivers will charge, but it is the owner drivers that have to bear the burden of cost, and do long-hours to make a living.. recently Delta has stipulated to its drivers that if they continued to work after 12 hours they would have to press a button saying they were still safe to work... win-win -win for the company.. now these companies also have a effect on the more reasonable small companies that actually care for their drivers and customs.... tired drivers are a danger to the public. we all know this.... the Law Society seems to be hell-bent on market forces.. what is best for the public regarding cost.... they don't seem to be interested in the public's safety..or the drivers' safety... they are not interested in whether a driver earns a living.In a safe manner... I see nothing in their questionnaire relating to fairness for drivers.....
So the truth is... the company keeps the rate down... the company keeps the drivers down... and the company owners make a fortune....

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:48 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
MR T wrote:
Regulatory capture..... I believe the lord mayor of Liverpool wasn't taking any prisoners when he told the law commission to get their tanks off Liverpool lawns.... =D>

And that's going to get the LC to change their tune? :?

I mean we wouldn't want elected official to put across a coherent case against the proposals put forward by the LC would we? [-(

I suppose it would be a fitting ending to all of this if the area that caused all this aggro was the area most effected.

Sussex... you do remember the select committee and unite and the GMB... and also the Liverpool licensing officer that was speaking for Liverpool.... saying they wanted all these private hire vehicles that were parked up all over Liverpool... out of Liverpool...

.. and then the Law Commission has stated that's not going to happen.... even before they have completed the consultation.....

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:25 pm 
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:D

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:02 pm 
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MR T wrote:
The trade didn't ask the Law Commission to rewrite the rules regarding hackney and private hire.... the trade simply wanted the cross border hiring issue sorted out...

Then they have been amazingly successful.

Post LC, there will defo be no cross border illegalities. [-(

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:03 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
How do these plate barons act?

Bully, threat, lie, to name just three.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:04 pm 
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toots wrote:
Does it really? In theory that sounds quite good, have you ever lived with it in practice?

No I live on Mars and drive a train. ](*,)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
toots wrote:
Does it really? In theory that sounds quite good, have you ever lived with it in practice?

No I live on Mars and drive a train. ](*,)


Personally I think in your area you have improved things for the trade but not necessarily for the customer :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:26 pm 
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toots wrote:
Personally I think in your area you have improved things for the trade but not necessarily for the customer :wink:

Well personally I don't think quotas are good for punters, so on that issue I agree with you viewpoint, however what other things do we have down here that's detrimental for punters?

If it's fares then I must be the luckiest driver the world has seen, cos no-one ever moans about the price.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:44 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
toots wrote:
Personally I think in your area you have improved things for the trade but not necessarily for the customer :wink:

Well personally I don't think quotas are good for punters, so on that issue I agree with you viewpoint, however what other things do we have down here that's detrimental for punters?

If it's fares then I must be the luckiest driver the world has seen, cos no-one ever moans about the price.


I don't think quotas are bad for punters and they certainly don't raise the prices. Also didn't say you did anything detrimental for the punters I just think that what is done is done more for the trade than the punters. As for costs I guess it's what you're used to paying. I'm sure if I came down there I may not moan to the driver but I'd certainly bitch about it to my mates :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:37 pm 
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DJV wrote:
Responses from RMT and others like Unite, GMB, NTA will be submitted in due course after some serious study. You don't jump to conclusions on such a document.

Unite, RMT, GMB will be lobbing parliament on the 10th July Committee room 17 concerning the LC concerns, will we be seeing members from the NTA and Hackney Associations at this meeting. This is to put our concerns to MP'S showing that the Government is not going to get its own way. Be There.

Regards all
DJV
RMT London Member
Part of the Branch LC Sub Committee

I know I am old, and getting senile... and also new to this political game... but if you could help me out with a few answers I would be greatly obliged...
1. Mr Percival has stated that he is a lawyer and a civil servant... and that the Law Commission is separate from the government.... so my question is ...what is the point of lobbying Parliament....2... who is the nutter that wants to allow licensing offices to issue fixed penalties..... I can't possibly believe that any union would want this for their members....

It reminds me of Turkey's voting for Christmas :badgrin:

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