Taxi Driver Online

Breathtaking!

You're quite happy with the standards of road safety on our roads? Then you are the only one.

It may have escaped your notice that road deaths remain a national disgrace, so much so that the government is doing everything it can to reduce them. It may not be for you, but for them, representing us, it is a national priority. That's why we have road humps everywhere, traffic calming generally, 20 mph speed limits and the use of camera technology. And this is also why the Scottish Government is tripping over itself to upgrade roads like the A9, because they know its design contributes to the many deaths on it.

I'm also astonished that you seem so blase about the possibility that you or yours could be a victim. To the point you'd put up with anything rather than put a tacho into hire cars which could prevent deaths. And you still haven't explained why you are so unnaturally anti them.

(I might also suggest that cars of the future are gonna have such spy devices built into them. It's only a matter of time.)

My concern is that the trade has never grown up. Because it has subjugated itself to vested interests, it is still locked in the dark ages. A responsible, thriving trade would be leading the debate, convincing the public it offers a service they would want to use. All we get instead is the determined protection of a status quo which is clearly unsustainable and rooted in the past.

Your observation that tachos would hit PH more than taxis may well be correct. And would that be a bad thing? The effect on PH is because it is those drivers who are forced to work long hours because their tariff dictates it, the god of competition cited to drive them to the bottom of the pond. Works falls off, so the owners reduce the tariff further, or increase the bribes to hotel Commissionaires. All commercially laudable in a free market economy of course, except it's not the companies who are paying for it.

While the PH company is "competing" on a price level, at the same time it is hiking its take from contract jobs, the recent example being a hike from 7 to 10 per cent. Again the driver pays for company inefficiency and poor trading conditions. This forces drivers to cheat other drivers and work longer hours to compensate. Jobs leading to 21 hour shifts are eagerly grasped at, customer safety not a concern in the driver's struggle to survive the assault on his working conditions.

It is breathtaking Bloodnock that you think this is acceptable, and I wonder if every customer who got into a PH was told that their driver had been on shift for whatever time, would continue with their journey. If they don't currently ask the question, then perhaps the hacks should be encouraging them to.

Hacks with their higher standards, more realistic and sustainable tariff can allow drivers to make a more reasonable living compared with PH, though it's not perfect and could be better.

And I've no doubt that if tachos did come, the cost would need to be passed onto customers. A price to be paid for personal and public safety.

As for the authorities, I have never offered anything but common sense. If they haven't liked them, then that is entirely because they depend on the vested interests to protect their own. Not what they're supposed to be doing. It could never have been the intention of Parliament for Section 10 (3) to be used by councils to restrict competition to their own commercial transport interests, or to exercise a sword of Damocles over a taxi trade or allow councillors to operate in the PH sector while restricting the taxi sector, which I understand Councillor Cardownie does.

The arguments are led here because there is no formal for forum for anyone to do so. The HCLCG is in the grip of those who control the trade, and whose vested interests mean that they will not rock the boat. And, as they've continually shown over many years, they have no real concern about customers, instead treating them as little more than cash cows. Which is precisely why PH has been able to roam all over our market satisfying customer dissatisfaction with the greedy taxi trade.

And, of course, all of this is encouraged by the fact that the consulation group meetings, access allowed only to those who already control the trade, are held in secret. NO attempt is made to solicit opinion from the trade generally, the meetings are held in secret, and what they decide is not made public until it is already a done deal. Our trade is shaped in the interests of those already in control, not those who work in it, nor the public it is supposed to serve.

Whatever politicians may think this is, it certainly has no basis in democracy, or democratic accountability.

When I initiated this thread I held no real view about tachographs. But I now know, because of your reaction Bloodnock, that they do have some merit to raise standards in the trade and improve the quality controls we so desperately to keep numbers down and I think the debate should be started.

And if you do operate as safely as you say you do, then you wouldn't fear them, as you seem to do.

And my question again is, why?

BTW

You should remember that in Edinburgh there are only around 300 to 400 real taxis. cars plying for hire 100% of the time. The rest of the hacks are working for a fair proportion of their working time as private hire, the radio circuits dictating that they do. This is why at peak periods empty taxis drive past potential customers hailing them, the customer is ignored and resentment builds in. had the companies encouraged natural growth in the trade then the potential for this may have been reduced. Rather what we have are companies taking streetcars into their fleet on the promise of more work coming to them, reducing the street service further, and all while job totals remain static meaning that the work in any circuit IS spread more thinly. Higher circuit fees for less return. And all because the circuits income is largely based on rentals, so more fees are needed, whether there's work or not, to fund committee members who were supposedly elected to change things, and instead becoming £35 grand a year additions to the problem. And those guys know precisely who they are, don't you?

_________________
Skull, "You are a police inspector, aren't you?"
Cab Inspector Smith, "Yes."
Skull, "So, are you going to tell Mr Taylor what his rights are?"
Smith, "And ... What rights?"

Aye and that would likely wash with Hack and PH customers alike with the current lack of money, In fact it would hurt you metered chaps more than PH types, that's because you work to the meter tariff that is dictated by your LA. where as we PH can charge as much or as little as we want.

Your additional "personal and public safety" fare increase would also have your punters tripping over themselves in their rush to use your Local buses or Trams instead of Taxis.



That's odd, Considering your thread title is headed "Tachographs - taxi restriction's new imperative"

This is simply unworkable tbh, driver simply goes on break between jobs to save the minutes for availability time.

Bang on the money...the driver could have sat waiting for work in his vehicle for hours and hours and still drive less than their Tacho driver hours permits, they could have been on duty from 7.30am until 1.00 am, broken no law and and be nearly at the point of sleeping and still only having driven 2 hours, the poor guys going to take any late run just to try and cover his costs, still be legal but even more dangerously tired.

Maybe a maximum number of hours a week that can be legally worked might be a more sensible option, It would in part remove the urge to take on mega runs in the knowledge that once you use your hours up that's it, they're gone.

This would ensure every driver got a decent amount of sleep every week and it would also eradicate the chance of running out of drive time Midway through a passenger journey and at least lets you get home before your timed out.

Thank you. you've finally admitted your interest.

Because you would lose out. You ARE already working long hours, just as I said. You already are pressed financially and need to do so to make a living.

And tachos WOULD rein you in, in the interests of public safety.

I rest my case.

_________________
Skull, "You are a police inspector, aren't you?"
Cab Inspector Smith, "Yes."
Skull, "So, are you going to tell Mr Taylor what his rights are?"
Smith, "And ... What rights?"

Not really, if the tacho can be manipulated then it's useless, and in the case of vehicle that is parked 3/4 of the day it's never going to show the true hours,

And fwiw I'm all for stopping 16 hr shifters myself, but the downside is they will simply add drivers to take up the slack, game fecked.

You're assuming that permitted hours would be the same as bus/lorry drivers.

AFAIK rest periods have to involve no driving whatsoever, that would include moving up on a rank.

IMO any maximum hours would have to be daily rather than weekly, since some would just use up their hours in an unsafe fashion e.g. over the weekend, with another job through the week.
A full 24 hour day off every week or so would also be needed.

Also, how would you enforce any maximum daily or weekly hours without using a tacho?

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http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/

They may try to add more drivers, but unless the money going to each driver improves, they might find retaining existing drivers hard, never mind recruiting more.

There has to be a limit to how little people will actually work for and some are already making well below minimum wage.

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http://wingsoverscotland.com/ http://www.newsnetscotland.com/

Precisely Gusmac. And it's because we're reaching that point that the question needs to be asked.

And this isn't even about owners who just want to double shift their vehicle to make it pay in an industry that's renowned for high costs which never reflect real market conditions. It's about the companies who charge because they can, and because they need to in order to maintain their own privileged lifestyle.

As things stand the companies get to drive the trade down to the bottom of the pond, while keeping their profits up. Drivers should be clamouring for new controls, because they will control the inefficient and greedy companies. if their menu for business does not include a decent deal for drivers, then they go out of business.

And wouldn't we all like to see the companies taking the hire car trades to the lowest common denominator go to the wall?

This question is about raising driver standards and rewards, and reining in the companies who are currently ripping them off.

I reckon that's worth doing.

_________________
Skull, "You are a police inspector, aren't you?"
Cab Inspector Smith, "Yes."
Skull, "So, are you going to tell Mr Taylor what his rights are?"
Smith, "And ... What rights?"

Don't flatter yourself, your Ideas are a bigger danger to the Taxi trade than they are to the PH trade, When your Taxi trade compatriots are Creeping slowly, space by space up their Taxi rank or cruising around on the hope that someones going to hail them or possibly hoping for a shout over the radio they are constantly chipping away at their Driver time, Mean time Old Bloodnock here is either driving or sitting at home away from his PH vehicles, Maybe I'm doing the accounts or cleaning the cars or just perusing TDO topics.

How on earth you think your Master plan of National or local Tachographology is going to wipe out PH companies and leave Taxi drivers immune from the same fate is truly amazing. Your putting the boot into the Taxi trade as much if not more so than your putting it into the PH trade.

You know, every time you come back you just put your foot in your mouth.

I've never said that tachos would abolish the PH trade. Nor would I ever wish it to.

Contrary to what you seem to think I recognise that PH drivers are just doing a job and deserve respect for that. But their situation is dire, because company owners are milking them dry. I know this for a fact given my recent experience driving PH. Companies are fireproof. Their take goes down they dip into drivers' pockets. That's precisely what happened when, during the deepest recession in memory, the company I drove with increased the commission it took from contract jobs from 7 to 10%. I consider this little more than theft by taking advantage of those not in a position to protest.

Now I know that guys will just work longer, harder, to compensate. But those extra hours make the service less safe. More hours means more tired drivers. More tired drivers make them less safe on our roads. Lower safety of drivers places all road users at extra risk. And the subtle thing is that they don't need to be directly involved in an accident. But a tired swerve here, could be a consequent shunt for someone just further down the road. That's how accidents occur.

As for harming the taxi trade, tachos wouldn't. The higher tariff means there's less imperative to work longer. Although I know some already do through their own choice.

fact is that its not the tachos that worry you is it? It's the potential that to save having to go down that route, government might well insist that all branches of the hire car industry adhere to the taxi tariff.

And, without being able to give the work away for buttons, paid for by the drivers' labour and not the fireproof companies, everything else being on a level playing field, then PH might just find itself back in the old days of being a peripheral service.

That's what really worries you isn't it?

And get this, Tachos may be one thing, but what government should be doing NOW is to insist that all those doing the same work, should have the same qualifications. In short, if PH are behaving like taxis, fulfilling a taxi role, then their drivers should be subject to the same topographical tests and module instruction as cabbies. Why should any customer have to put up with the lower standards of PH?

Think you could pass the Topo Bloodnock?

_________________
Skull, "You are a police inspector, aren't you?"
Cab Inspector Smith, "Yes."
Skull, "So, are you going to tell Mr Taylor what his rights are?"
Smith, "And ... What rights?"

My my Jasbar.....I think Ive hit a raw nerve with you, I've never come across anyone as paranoid about PH as you. You go fill your boots mate, You think what you want but It would affect me no more than it would affect you, Between me and my business partner the hours would not make a difference. PH is going to be your bogeyman for years to come, send your letters of complaint to whoever will listen, not many I'd reckon. I'm fed up of you pontifications as a are few others I'd guess.

lol, you really dont understand jasbars beating you into submission argument do you?

I disagree with you and think driver hours need addressed, and we're going to agree to disagree.

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Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

No raw nerve, you're just suffering from myopia.

I've touched your raw nerve.

You still can't get it into your head, and read my past posts if you have to, I don't see PH as such a threat to anyone, other than my concern for the safety of the public.

And where I'm coming from, a PH driver does anything, is involved in anything, or anything happens to him then its reported as if it is the taxi trade.

And I don't want my trade associated with the risks of drivers , any drivers, having to work inordinately long hours to compensate for their masters ripping them off. Which is what is currently happening in the PH trade. Whether you like to admit it or not. But I've seen it happen.

Previously I couldn't understand how our local PH gurus could add an extra 50 Skodas to the fleet. I now do understand. Without any increase in work, their investment meant less work for the rest of the fleet, who just worked harder to compensate. And that's where the public are put at extra risk.

Your problem is that I know what goes on in PH. I've seen it with my own eyes. I've lived it and breathed it. The difficulty you have Bloodnock is that I am quite happy to tell others about it. Your cat's out of the bag. I now represent a threat to your previously cosy little world.

You may well make a living. Given your obvious subservience to the system, you may well be one of those being fed. But look around you. Are the rest of the guys in your fleet getting the same deal you are?

Feel free to answer in your own time ...

_________________
Skull, "You are a police inspector, aren't you?"
Cab Inspector Smith, "Yes."
Skull, "So, are you going to tell Mr Taylor what his rights are?"
Smith, "And ... What rights?"

Got a fare on Sat night and the passenger came out with the usual 'what time you on till ?' She then said the driver who took her out was half way through his 24 hour shift, starting at 6am Sat and finishing 6am Sun ! Would you like to get in this guys cab after he'd just done nearly 24 hours without any sleep ?