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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:46 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:48 am 
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Sirius wrote:
"It could only happen in "Blairland". " :?

Democracy, a process that lets us choose the person to blame :lol:

Volvoman, it's happening all over the world , many places have had some form of road pricing for many years.

Intrestingly the first toll road in England was introduced in 1663, surely you cant blame that on Tony Blair?


So far throughout the world a road toll normally consists of a one off payment that only effects a minority of people who might wish to pass over a bridge or stretch of highway and in some cases the fee is levied solely for the purpose of maintenance. There is no country in the world that has a system of charging every motorists by every mile they travel.

The sole purpose of mileage charging is to increase revenue, it is not enough that we in Britain have 75% of Europes speed cameras when only 5% of accidents are actually caused by speeding. Most of the 45 billion annual revenue obtained from motorist goes on other sectors such as the health service and only a small part of the revenue is plowed back into road Transport.

Below is good site on speed camera revenue and speeding statistics.

http://www.speed-trap.co.uk/Facts&Figur ... s_Home.htm

Regards

JD


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:29 pm 
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volvoman wrote:
[As well as making people reluctant to use their vehicles for risk of incurring financial penalties, the whole concept of moving freely throughout our once green and pleasant land will be in jeopardy, thus restricting many people to staying in their own small communities ,perhaps losing contact with friends and relatives


Well 'financial penalties' certainly haven't done this at present, indeed that's why the scheme is being proposed.

I really can't see it being politically feasible for the Govt to hugely increase the tax burden on the motorist, so I think your doomsday scenario is a bit overdone.

But you could be correct in that the tax burden could raise slightly, but I think the aim seems to be to induce us to use the roads more reasonably, for example non-essential journies being made away from peak times.

Indeed, it could actually make the more vulnerable members of society better off and more mobile.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:31 pm 
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JD wrote:
The sole purpose of mileage charging is to increase revenue, it is not enough that we in Britain have 75% of Europes speed cameras when only 5% of accidents are actually caused by speeding. Most of the 45 billion annual revenue obtained from motorist goes on other sectors such as the health service and only a small part of the revenue is plowed back into road Transport.



I agree, let's jail speeders instead :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:36 pm 
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JD wrote:
Below is good site on speed camera revenue and speeding statistics.

http://www.speed-trap.co.uk/Facts&Figur ... s_Home.htm



Funny that they make a big play on the fact that speed isn't a major factor in accidents, but then at the bottom they support measures to make cameras obvious to increase the detterent effect.

Of course, what they don't point out is that the specific detterent at speed camera sites may be increased, but as a general deterrent to speeding measures such as the ones they advocate decrease it.

It's like LAs saying they announcing in advance that they will conduct spot checks at a specific time and place, but as we all know many of those with something to hide do a quick disappearing act even when the word gets round about unnanounced checks.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:08 pm 
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TDO wrote:
JD wrote:
Below is good site on speed camera revenue and speeding statistics.

http://www.speed-trap.co.uk/Facts&Figur ... s_Home.htm



Funny that they make a big play on the fact that speed isn't a major factor in accidents, but then at the bottom they support measures to make cameras obvious to increase the detterent effect.

Of course, what they don't point out is that the specific detterent at speed camera sites may be increased, but as a general deterrent to speeding measures such as the ones they advocate decrease it.

It's like LAs saying they announcing in advance that they will conduct spot checks at a specific time and place, but as we all know many of those with something to hide do a quick disappearing act even when the word gets round about unnanounced checks.


Yes I agree that there is a bias on that website towards reducing speed cameras but I think even the most ardent supporter of speed cameras amongst motorists would probably say things have got out of hand. The site makes the point that the main reason these cameras are popping up all over the place is for revenue purposes only. I can't disagree with that when you see the statistic that the vast majority of accidents and deaths are caused by pedestrian being either drunk or irresponsible.

Motorists like pedestrians are human beings and as such they have human failings. Whether it be speeding, DD or driving without due care and attention the fact remains that deaths are caused by human error. That will always be the case. Limiting the possibility of human error as far as the motorist is concerned is highlighted by the number of safety measures that have been introduced in the form of Cameras and vehicle quality. But how do you transfer that awareness to pedestrians, especially the ones that have been drinking.

Road safety is a two way street and pedestrians have to shoulder their share of the blame when they are proven to have the highest statistic when it comes road accidents.

There are also several degrees of speeding, from limited to excessive. It would be interesting to compare statistics of convictions of those that have broken the speed limit by only a few mph and those who have excessively broken the limit.

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JD


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:27 am 
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Sirius wrote:
"It could only happen in "Blairland". " :?

Democracy, a process that lets us choose the person to blame :lol:

Volvoman, it's happening all over the world , many places have had some form of road pricing for many years.

Intrestingly the first toll road in England was introduced in 1663, surely you cant blame that on Tony Blair?
I have to hold my hands up there :sad: :sad: :sad: Firstly the motor car was not invented until the 1880s and secondly, Tony probably knows very little of what is going on in this country.(He spends most of his time providing rectal salivation to Mr Bush.) So yes, Sirius, you are right once again, I cannot blame that on Tony Blair. When I said "Blairland" I meant Britain under Blair.(and his henchmen who will convert us into a totalitarian state if they have their way) :evil: :evil: :evil:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:43 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:31 am 
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Sirius wrote:
I dont know about being right again, when was I right before :lol: :lol:

But the point I was trying to make was that if we as a group of people are so in awe of the free market e.g Taxi plates ,vehicle choice and the like, then surely we cant say that the road network should not be subject to the same market forces that drive everything else, this does not mean I am in favour of road pricing nor against , just that if we are going to get it, then it must be a fair and just system , but can you have a just system when it's left to market forces?
Free market,taxi plates, vehicle choice!!! Are you insane? I recently attended a funeral in Hartlepool and spotted a £30,000 Mercedes Hackney painted Caterpillar Yellow. So much for free market economy and freedom of choice. Apparently that is the rule. Think I cried more for the Mercedes than the distant relative!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:30 pm 
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Oh well, it could have been worse, you could have had a £30,000 yellow plate attached to it as well.

And since we are always being told about how low the fares are in Hartlepool, I wonder how he can afford a £30k Merc anyway :-k

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:55 am 
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volvoman wrote:
Sirius wrote:
"It could only happen in "Blairland". " :?

Democracy, a process that lets us choose the person to blame :lol:

Volvoman, it's happening all over the world , many places have had some form of road pricing for many years.

Intrestingly the first toll road in England was introduced in 1663, surely you cant blame that on Tony Blair?
I have to hold my hands up there :sad: :sad: :sad: Firstly the motor car was not invented until the 1880s and secondly, Tony probably knows very little of what is going on in this country.(He spends most of his time providing rectal salivation to Mr Bush.) So yes, Sirius, you are right once again, I cannot blame that on Tony Blair. When I said "Blairland" I meant Britain under Blair.(and his henchmen who will convert us into a totalitarian state if they have their way) :evil: :evil: :evil:



Oil is running out thats wot it's all about, not in my life time, maybe not in the most of others on this site, but you bet in the years to come some other form of energy will be used to power motor vehicles, wether it be electric or hygogen or even solar cell, all the major manufactors are experimenting as we speak maybe thats why road pricing may start to come in, or the pre planning.


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