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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 7:49 pm 
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Sussex wrote:
grandad wrote:
No faulty fridge = no fire in the first place.

Agreed, but IMO the liability for the fridge fire is limited to the kitchen and at most the flat.

I think the top fire officer said they have a dozen or so similar fires every day or week in London, none of them have ever escalated like this very sad event.


It does not matter what,it could have been a faulty tumble dryer which a recall and warning not to use them issued by a major manufacturer but that cause is irrelevant in this case,the fire should not have spread like a wild fire ,there was something terribly wrong with the cladding.

See that the 1st casualty has been hung out to dry CEO of Council forced to resign under pressure exerted by government minister,think it is the start of a cover up.Blame is going to be laid at his door.Government claiming they had nothing to do with resignation,do not believe a word that is uttered by this Tory government.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:19 pm 
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heathcote wrote:

It does not matter what,it could have been a faulty tumble dryer which a recall and warning not to use them issued by a major manufacturer but that cause is irrelevant in this case,the fire should not have spread like a wild fire ,there was something terribly wrong with the cladding.

See that the 1st casualty has been hung out to dry CEO of Council forced to resign under pressure exerted by government minister,think it is the start of a cover up.Blame is going to be laid at his door.Government claiming they had nothing to do with resignation,do not believe a word that is uttered by this Tory government.


=D> =D> =D>

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:10 pm 
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grandad wrote:
toots wrote:
grandad wrote:
INTRODUCTION
Buildings over 18m in height present numerous challenges when it comes to fire safety. The most obvious difference in comparison to low-rise buildings is the time needed to escape from the top of the building, especially as lifts and escalators are usually no-go in the event of a fire. This is of particular concern in office blocks, where the number of floors can reach triple figures and large groups of people will be attempting to descend multiple flights of stairs at the same time. This not only presents problems in terms of the speed of evacuation, it can also put those with mobility issues at an increased risk.
Other fire-safety issues that must be addressed on multistorey structures include the provision of access for fire fighters (who must work within the structure because ladders cannot be used at height), and the proximity of other buildings.
Fire can spread through an external cladding system via the cavities or through the cladding material itself. The source of ignition may be flames issuing from windows or other openings due to a fire within the building, or there may be an external fire source – for example, fire radiation from another building or from a source immediately next to the cladding, such as refuse set alight by arson.
Flames constrained within cavities can extend five to 10 times their original length regardless of the materials present. If fires are allowed to develop, they may flash over and break out through windows. They may then spread up, over or through the cladding – flames can extend more than 2m above window openings, regardless of cladding materials. If the flames are able to re-enter the building, secondary fires can then develop.
KEY STANDARDS
First published in 1988, BR 135: Fire Performance of external thermal insulation for walls of multistorey buildings responded to the increasing use of thermal insulation within refurbishment programmes on multistorey residential tower blocks. When the document was produced, there was not yet any full-scale fire test available. Recommendations were therefore based on a single-faced large-scale test facility.
However, during the review of BR 135, a number of high-profile fires occurred that led to a review of the test methodology. Coupled with the growth of new design solutions, this suggested that a full-scale fire-test method was necessary to fully understand the overall fire performance of the complete system. As a result, the then Department of the Environment worked with industry to develop one test method, which was published in 1999.
The review process resulted in the publication of the second edition of BR 135 in 2003. This was accompanied by the full-scale fire test method from BRE Fire Note 9, named BS 8414-1: Fire Performance Of External Cladding Systems – Part 1 Test Method for Non-Loadbearing External Cladding Systems Applied to the Face of the Building. This test methodology enables the overall fire performance of the system and its relevant components to be assessed in as close to typical end-use conditions as possible.
Part 1 is applicable to systems fixed to a solid substrate. A Part 2 was introduced in 2013 for systems fixed to and supported by structural steel framework. As masonry substrate and structural steel frames react differently in fire situations, it is important to ensure the relevant test is used.
Under the BS 8414 test series, the sample is fixed to the test rig at a minimum height of 6m above the combustion chamber. Cavity barriers should be included and fitted in accordance with Section 9 of Approved Document B, volume 2. The main face of the rig must be at least 2.8m wide, with a 1.5m-wide wing, and the depth must be no greater than 200mm.
The test is run for 60 minutes and the duration of the fire load is 30 minutes. The start time, ts, for fire spread occurs when the temperature of any external thermal couple at level 1 (2.5m above the top of the combustion chamber) equals or exceeds a 200°C temperature rise above the start temperature, Ts, and remains above this value for at least 30 seconds. Damage is recorded in the following areas:
flame spread on surface
flame spread in cavities or insulation
area of facade damaged or detached.


What is that.

That is the standards that are used to say that this cladding is safe. This is the information that decision makers are provided with when making decisions on insulating buildings.As far as I am aware the insulation used on this, and many tower blocks meet the required standard. I would be interested to find out if this particular cladding actually met the standard or if it was made in a substandard way.


Oh the basic standards. I don't suppose there is better cladding available that meet a higher standard?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:17 am 
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grandad wrote:
That is the standards that are used to say that this cladding is safe. This is the information that decision makers are provided with when making decisions on insulating buildings.As far as I am aware the insulation used on this, and many tower blocks meet the required standard. I would be interested to find out if this particular cladding actually met the standard or if it was made in a substandard way.


didn't the Chancellor say different on Sunday?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:18 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
grandad wrote:
That is the standards that are used to say that this cladding is safe. This is the information that decision makers are provided with when making decisions on insulating buildings.As far as I am aware the insulation used on this, and many tower blocks meet the required standard. I would be interested to find out if this particular cladding actually met the standard or if it was made in a substandard way.


didn't the Chancellor say different on Sunday?
What did the Chancellor say?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:32 pm 
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grandad wrote:
What did the Chancellor say?

I want Teresa's job. :shock:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:06 pm 
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captain cab wrote:
heathcote wrote:

It does not matter what,it could have been a faulty tumble dryer which a recall and warning not to use them issued by a major manufacturer but that cause is irrelevant in this case,the fire should not have spread like a wild fire ,there was something terribly wrong with the cladding.

See that the 1st casualty has been hung out to dry CEO of Council forced to resign under pressure exerted by government minister,think it is the start of a cover up.Blame is going to be laid at his door.Government claiming they had nothing to do with resignation,do not believe a word that is uttered by this Tory government.


=D> =D> =D>



For the benefit of those persons who take warnings seriously Hotpoint fridge/freezer owners who have model FF175BP(white) or FF175 BG(graphite) should contact Hotpoint urgently.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:06 pm 
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heathcote wrote:
captain cab wrote:
heathcote wrote:

It does not matter what,it could have been a faulty tumble dryer which a recall and warning not to use them issued by a major manufacturer but that cause is irrelevant in this case,the fire should not have spread like a wild fire ,there was something terribly wrong with the cladding.

See that the 1st casualty has been hung out to dry CEO of Council forced to resign under pressure exerted by government minister,think it is the start of a cover up.Blame is going to be laid at his door.Government claiming they had nothing to do with resignation,do not believe a word that is uttered by this Tory government.


=D> =D> =D>



For the benefit of those persons who take warnings seriously Hotpoint fridge/freezer owners who have model FF175BP(white) or FF175 BG(graphite) should contact Hotpoint urgently.


you really don't get it do you ALL fridges/freezers/air con units can catch fire because instead of cfc's we now use isobutane an explosively flammable gas it is EVERY unit which is dangerous if they suffer any damage resulting in a leak

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:06 am 
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edders23 wrote:

you really don't get it do you ALL fridges/freezers/air con units can catch fire because instead of cfc's we now use isobutane an explosively flammable gas it is EVERY unit which is dangerous if they suffer any damage resulting in a leak


You apparently do not get it.we all know electrical goods developing a fault can ignite.
Hotpoint are asking those who own either of the 2 stated models to get in touch so they can be checked,at the moment no other manufacturer has issued a statement.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:29 am 
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heathcote wrote:
at the moment no other manufacturer has issued a statement.
Any reason why they would?

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:11 pm 
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Lets work backwards to see where the Blame may lie.

Mrs May for running the country the fire was in, the the Mayor of London for running London, Kensington & Chelsea TMO for running the flat, Hotpoint for making the FF175BP fridge freezer that the fire was allegedly traced back to, Tony Blair for allowing in the Somali Migrant who owned the Fridge and rented the Flat that the fire started in, the Parents and Grand parents of the Somali man who rented the flat for having him in the first place, the Continent of Africa for it's part in creating the First Homo Sapiens that brought about the Somali guys forefathers, Evolution for creating all the Early varieties of Homos that predate Homo Sapien, the Big Bang for creating the Universe...


Hmmmm...Though I'm blaming no one in particular my money still lies on a faulty appliance that the police say started the fire and possibly the Manufacturer of the combustible cladding along with Planning dept that authorised it's use...


I certainly do not blame Theresa May or the Tories, nor Labour nor any political party....even though Sleekit Labour would love to blame the Tories, this has become politicised when it shouldnt have been by Labour trying to steal a few points(the lowlifes) and it's also fast becoming a Magnet for the Coffin chaser Cash for Blame lawyers.

I wonder who'll pay the £billions in Compo.....my Moneys on us..the Innocent Tax Payer and our Innocent Government...


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:57 am 
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bloodnock wrote:
along with Planning dept that authorised it's use...



The problem with that is, as I stated before, The planning department would ask for the report that states that the cladding meets the requirements. This would be in the form of a safety certificate. It is not a routine matter (until now) to question safety certificates and commission independent reports.
Lets be clear here do any of us check the safety of anything that we buy? No we just rely on the manufacturer to have done the testing and the relevant authority to have checked the same and issued the certificate to say that it is safe. You wouldn't buy a new car and take it for a crash test to make sure it did what it says on the tin.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:19 am 
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grandad wrote:
bloodnock wrote:
along with Planning dept that authorised it's use...



The problem with that is, as I stated before, The planning department would ask for the report that states that the cladding meets the requirements. This would be in the form of a safety certificate. It is not a routine matter (until now) to question safety certificates and commission independent reports.
Lets be clear here do any of us check the safety of anything that we buy? No we just rely on the manufacturer to have done the testing and the relevant authority to have checked the same and issued the certificate to say that it is safe. You wouldn't buy a new car and take it for a crash test to make sure it did what it says on the tin.

I blame Elvis

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:11 pm 
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MR T wrote:
grandad wrote:
bloodnock wrote:
along with Planning dept that authorised it's use...



The problem with that is, as I stated before, The planning department would ask for the report that states that the cladding meets the requirements. This would be in the form of a safety certificate. It is not a routine matter (until now) to question safety certificates and commission independent reports.
Lets be clear here do any of us check the safety of anything that we buy? No we just rely on the manufacturer to have done the testing and the relevant authority to have checked the same and issued the certificate to say that it is safe. You wouldn't buy a new car and take it for a crash test to make sure it did what it says on the tin.

I blame Elvis


Presley or Costello?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:59 pm 
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It's down to the Green Tree Hugger Brigade. :sad:

They want us to spend billions we haven't got on vanity projects like cladding and wind farms.

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