Taxi Driver Online

To be honest I don't know, but I'm not exactly sure what the general rule is with regards a private car and how many passengers it can carry - what exactly are the rules, and do they specify precise numbers?

Of course, LAs do specify exact numbers for the trade, but if they want to make exceptions then that may not conflict with the more general law, unless that general law is precise, which I don't think it is.

And the seatbelt rule that you qoute does say that it should be worn only if available thus leaving the door open to an extra passenger not wearing one.

Certainly a grey area though.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Surely this is quite simple though, a normal saloon type car is designed to carry 5 people which of course is the driver and 4 passengers, if you were to get the same car plated for private hire then you would be licenced to carry 4 passengers, because the very same car is designed to carry 4 passengers then under the eyes of the law you are permitted to carry only 4 pasengers, anything more than this is against the law and of course you are breaking the rules of PH.

Surely this is quite simple though, a normal saloon type car is designed to carry 5 people which of course is the driver and 4 passengers, if you were to get the same car plated for private hire then you would be licenced to carry 4 passengers, because the very same car is designed to carry 4 passengers then under the eyes of the law you are permitted to carry only 4 pasengers, anything more than this is against the law and of course you are breaking the rules of PH.

Yes, but my point was that it's LAs that make the law as regards seating and whether there are any excpetions to that, so if they say there is then in the eyes of the law then they can carry five (say) under specifed circumstances.

As for the general law, cars may be designed for five, but what is the law on this - is it illegal to carry a dog as well as five people, for example?

Until someone tells us what the law is in this regard then no one can say whether there's a confict between the road traffic and the LA's law, in which case the RT law would take precedence.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

But this with regards to the law is already covered in section 75 of the Highway Code

75: You MUST wear a seat belt if one is available, unless you are exempt. Those exempt from the requirement include the holders of medical exemption certificates and people making local deliveries in a vehicle designed for the purpose.
Laws RTA 1988 sects 14 & 15, MV(WSB)R & MV(WSBCFS)R


As it states, you must wear a seatbelt if one is available.

I can only think that the reason it says "if one is available" is due to the old days of not having to wear seat belts. Not forgetting that it wasn't until 1989 (made compulsory to belt up in the back 1991) that it became compulsory for ALL new cars to be fitted with seatbelts, although we know that many were already fitted before this date, many of the much older cars that are still around don't have rear belts which is probably the reason why the Highway Code quotes "if one is available".

thinkroadsafety.gov.uk has this to say:

What if there are not enough seat belts available?

Seat belt wearing law currently does not prevent you from carrying more passengers than there are seat belts and restraints, but the way in which passengers are carried must not cause danger to any person in the vehicle. Do not overload the vehicle. If you have to choose who rides without a belt or child restraint, remember that heavier passengers can cause greater injury to others in an accident than lighter passengers can.

Remember that if an adult belt or child restraint is not available in the front, children can only travel in the back.

Seat belt use

Never put the same seat belt around two children, or around yourself and another passenger (adult or child). Do not allow your child to move up to using the adult belt too early (see Child restraint systems and Booster cushion).


Although they claim this is true I am still to find evidence in the Highway Code to back this up.

It still doesn't get around the fact that if your taxi plate says "Licenced to carry 4, 5, 7, or even 8 passengers" if you exceed the limit then you are simply pushing your luck and going against the licencing regulations.

Listen
Seatbelts and young kids

Its you thats responsible, whatever happens, not your operator or the LA
Your local council will have a department that deals with childrens safety, seatbelts and car seats, if you are not sure talk to them, not your taxi licence department a they don't know the law

This is how I work from the ranks

If the child looks as though they can take seatbelts without having the belt around their neck, take em, the belt is supposed to be over the breast bone, if they don't fit that they need booster seat, to which I don't carry as such a variation, don't take em, be very careful, at the end of the day if an incident or even an accident was to happen they will come down on you like a ton of bricks, both the partent and the law

There is a case as yet to come to court, a girl from the North East who for some reason did not safety belt her daughter correctly in a child seat, the belt was connected wrong, an accident occurred , the girl died, the parent driver up on manslaughter charges

be very careful out there

If the plate says 4 passengers but the regulations say certain categories don't count towards the 4 then how could this be going against the regulations?

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

But where does it say that certain categories don't count?

I have never seen this written anywhere, but if your plate says "Licenced to carry 4 passengers" then surely 4 is the limit, you certainly can't get 5 passengers into a car with 5 seats, where would the driver sit?

If it's a babe in arms (say) then I don't think there would be any problems with space.

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Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

Some councils (Sefton being one) say a little one can be classed as half, so, in their view, five passengers could be classed as four.

I happen to believe that's wrong, but then again we are talking about Sefton.

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IDFIMH

Yes but the "baby in arms" is still a passenger and so would make a passenger count of four adults equal 5 and not 4 or 4.5 passengers.

In Fife we previously had a rule as below. That isn't in the latest rules, and to be honest it was just when reading this thread that I noticed that it seemed to have been taken out.

But the council certainly didn't tell us it had been taken out, but then again none of the drivers seemed to know the proper rule anyway.

The driver of a taxicab/phv shall not at any time convey in the vehicle more than the number of of passengers the vehicle is licensed to carry. For the purpose of this condition

(a) the first two children under 12 years shall be reckoned as one passenger
(b) no account shall be taken of any children under two years, provided that each child under two years is accompanied by an adult.

So in a car plated for four passengers you could have three adults, two kids and three babies

I think you will find that many councils have bye laws that state two children under 12 count as one passenger. I just wonder how a cabby would fair if he had 10 children in his cab all under 12 but only seating capacity for five?

Considering that statute law takes precedent over bye laws, I think there could be a conflict in law somewhere?

Regards

JD