Taxi Driver Online

No one is saying there is anything in the 1976 act but in respect of premises there certainly is something in the 1990 Town and Country-planning act. And that is the reason you will not be issued with a private hire operators license until it is proven by the planning department that the premises at which you wish to conduct your business is suitable for that purpose?

This is the reason why application forms such as the one I posted, state quite categorically that the license will only be issued if the premises in question passes local planning conditions. There are two separate pieces of legislation, one concerns planning permission the other an operator's license, you can't get an operators license unless the premises has passed the planning regulations.

So to put it in a nutshell, planning permission comes first and the license follows. Simple when you think about it.

The easiest way is to ask you local planning department on Tuesday.

Regards

JD

pretty certain thats the case.

It would appear Cgull you are right and the private hire operator's application form of the flagship Authority of Brighton does not ask for evidence of planning permission before they grant an operator's license.

They state that planning permission is down to each individual applicant.

This surprises me considering every other authority I've looked in too on this issue has a policy of no planning permission no license. I wonder if Brighton is unique?

If anyone else has information of authorities that do not offer planning advice or do not require a letter of a planning grant then please let me know.

In the meantime here are some other councils who have a policy of advising applicants of their need for planning permission or an exemption letter.

Hastings falls inline with the majority of councils who give advice about planning permission.

Private Hire Operator's Licence

A Private Hire Operators Licence is required in order to be able to accept bookings for Private Hire Vehicles.
If you are a vehicle proprietor you may work for any existing Operator.

However, if you wish to apply for your own licence to operate from premises which will be used as a booking office, you need to obtain planning permission from the Council's Planning Department allowing use of the building.

A Certificate of Public Liability Insurance is required where the public have access to the premises i.e. waiting room etc.

Private Hire Vehicle proprietors who obtain 'school contracts' are also required to hold an Operators Licence.

You should also bring the following items:

* Certificate of Public Liability Insurance
* Copy of Planning permission
* Correct Fee

Applications will not be accepted without production of the above.
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Kirklees on the other hand are more informative as to what is required for both residential and commercial premises.

http://www.kirklees.gov.uk/business/pla ... teHire.pdf

Wyre has the same requirement as the majority of licensing departments.

A Private Hire Operators Licence is required whenever Private Hire Vehicles are used (unless the vehicle forms part of the fleet of an existing licensed private hire operator). An application form should be submitted with the appropriate fee and for new licences, a letter from the planning department confirming either that the necessary planning permissions have been obtained or are not required.
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Liverpool.

Private hire - operators

What is a private hire operators' licence?

A Liverpool private hire operator's licence permits the holder to receive bookings (by telephone or other means) and dispatch private hire vehicles for pre arranged hire. Both the vehicle and driver sent to complete the booking must be a licensed Liverpool private hire driver and a Liverpool licensed private hire vehicle.

Planning permission is required purely to ensure that if your business is operated from your home address it will not cause any nuisance or obstruction to neighbours in the immediate locality.

Advice should be sought from the planning and building control department on 0151 233 3021
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Huntingdonshire Agenda and Minutes of the Overview and Scrutiny Panel (Planning and Finance) Tuesday, 14 February 2006 7:30 pm state the following.

92. OPERATION OF PRIVATE HIRE BUSINESSES FROM RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES PDF 8 K

To consider a report by the Head of Administration outlining the Council’s statutory roles in regulating the operation of private hire vehicle businesses from residential properties.

Contact:R Reeves 388003

Additional documents:

* Private Hire Business Annex1 PDF 15 K
* Private Hire Business Annex2 PDF 96 K

Minutes:

Further to Minute No. 05/65 and with the assistance of a report by the Head of Administration (a copy of which is appended in the Minute Book) the Panel were acquainted with the Council’s powers in regulating the operation of private hire businesses from residential properties.

Members were reminded that the separate licensing and planning regimes had to be dealt with independently to ensure that the Council did not take into account extraneous matters in determining any application. In respect of applications for planning permission by private hire and taxi operators, Member’s attention was drawn to the guidance note prepared by the Planning Division which explained that permission was required by all operators, irrespective of the size of their business. The Panel was informed that the Planning Division and Licensing Section worked in close co-operation to minimise any potential impact on neighbourhoods from operators but that if Members were aware of any complaints from the public, they should forward them to officers for consideration.
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Sefton has quite an experienced licensing manager and it is no surprise that this council use the same practice as the ones mentioned above.

Private Hire Operator Licence

Any person who wishes to invite or accept bookings for private hire journeys from an address within Sefton is required by law to hold a licence issued by us.

You will be required to keep records of every journey and are responsible for ensuring that the journeys booked are completed.

We can only issue a Private Hire Operators licence if the premises that you wish to operate from is within the area of Sefton

How to apply for a new licence
Applicants must attend the Licensing Unit in person together with

Planning permission, or a letter from the planning department stating that you do not need planning permission
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To conclude it would appear that Brighton licensing department and that of the Planning department might not have thought this through adequately, especially when you consider the approach of other authorities. There is nothing in the 1976 act that states a licensing department must ask for proof of planning permission before the said license is granted. However, many would conclude that it is a poor administration that issues a license to operate a private hire business at a named premises without that premises first being cleared by the planning department.

As you can see from the information I have posted above, every one of these councils has referred to planning permission in their advice to applicants.

I have reason to believe that in the future Brighton may well alter their Private hire operator's form to include a reference and explanation to planning permission.

We shall see.

Regards

JD

I'm with my good friends along the coast on this one.

I think Planning Permission shouldn't be dependant (in part) on an operator gaining an operator's license, and vice-versa.

Say a firm had a 100% taxi fleet, in that case they don't need an operator's license. They then decide to improve the service they offer by adding a few PHs.

Then they would need an operator's license. But wouldn't it be a bit daft if they had to apply for Planning Permission to carry on doing exactly the same as they have for many years.

Another issue is whether the booking office is within the same area that the operator's license is being applied for. If not then that's another mine-field.

_________________
IDFIMH

The planning permission is for the premises it doesn't matter whether it is private hire or hackney. The premises to be used will still need planning permission or a letter of exemption. It appears that the majority of licensing authorities won't issue a license unless they know the premises are suitable. I suppose it's similar to licensing a roadworthy vehicle?

I personally have no opinion on the matter, I just echo the accepted practices and what one might be faced with when applying for an operators license. It really makes no difference to me. Unless of course I lived in Brighton and some joker obtained a license without planning permission for his residential premises and then proceeded to put an illuminated sign outside saying "Taxis" which subsequently attracts customers at all hours of the night and day? Added to this five or six cars continually tooing and frowing at all hours of the evening then perhaps I might feel a little pizzzed off that the person was granted a license without first obtaining planning permission?

Regards

JD

I think that's a vaild point, but it looks like B&H licensing don't refuse an operator's license on the basis of no planning permission, and B&H planning don't refuse planning permission on the basis of no operator's license.

Red tape yes, but I do think there's a tad of sense somewhere there.

_________________
IDFIMH

You are quite right, they do not refuse an application.

They are the only council I have come across so far that do not mention in their application information, that planning permission for the premises might be needed?

Brighton isssues the license on the "assumption" that the applicant has himself settled the issue of planning permission?

I must admit, that if I was an LO I would want to know that the premisses I was issuing the license for had been passed suitable for its purpsoe? This is the approach used by the vast majority of councils in the country, as you can see from the information I have posted.

Perhaps the word "may" should be added to Faq 19 just for those people in Brighton who prefer to obtain a license and then seek planning permission afterwards?

The Faq would then read.

19. How do I become a private hire operator?

You apply to the Licensing office but first you "may" need to obtain planning permission for the premises you intend to license. There is a fee for the Operator Licence. Under normal circumstances the operator licence is granted immediately after planning permission has been given.

Regards

JD

JD Wrote:




So its all off to sunny Brighton then

I will answer some your other questions, not ignoring you honest, very valid questions the answers to which need some thought with regards how to convey them on here, but I am a bit busy right now, may have time at the weekend, unless TDO locks the thread before then.

Take care

Eric

Sussex wrote:



That, the hours of operation and how many parking spaces are required.

JD Wrote:



Whole hartedly JD, however it does not cost anything to gain a letter from the council stating that for your location, or type of operation you do not need it, one does not have to fill out the application form. One must be certain however that it is yourself who is telling the council why you are exempt and not be asking them if they consider you to be, one has to prompt them to look again at their regs to find out if you are right or wrong, else they will not bother and insit a planning application be filled in.

JD Wrote:



No I do not agree with this, most definatlty not, which is the whole point of the posting in the first place.

Sussex Wrote:



Quite, and it does not always, its down to that old chestnut interpretation again.

JD wrote:



Quite right but as stated above I did not pay for it nor did I ask their opinion on if it was required, I told them it was not the reasons why and asked them to confirm this fact in writing to me, which they did.

JD Wrote:


These planning consultants are springing up all over, all they do is charge you for assisting with the application and they do the same as I did, impose restrictions which will allow planning to be granted, however they miss one crucial point and that is if there is no noise, there are no vehicles and "the public" will not know the operator is there then WHY do they need planning permission???? This is only applicable where the enviroment is impacted by the operation and that is the point I am trying to get accross, sorry I am not doing this very well, but I am up against this preconception thingy, when one starts thinking outside the box you will be surprised how situations suddenly change.

Sussex Wrote:



Another extremely valid point and a correct one. Same as there is nothing in that that act to say you have to be VAT registered to get a PHOL, I got the PCO on that also, had only been going 12 months at the time and had not threshold yet, PCO tried to tell me I had to be registered, told them to spin on it and I would register when the law required me to.

JD Wrote:



And they will say of course you do, regardless if it is true or not.

The motto of the story here is do your homework find out exactly what is required and why then and only then either part with your money and still have restrictions re noise operating hours and parking placed on you OR place these on yourself first and then ask the council why you need planning in the first place and watch their mouths drop to the floor after they have checked and have to agree it is not required.

Regards Eric

A well-rounded post Eric, I only have one observation to make and that is "I have never ever said" part with money? Everyone who applies for a private hire operator's license will first have to comply with the requirements of the application form. If that form says you need planning permission or an equivalent letter stating you are exempt from planning permission then those are the rules you are going to have to play by?

If the application form says nothing whatsoever about planning permission, such as Brighton, then of course you don't need a letter of any kind. However if you plan to operate several cars then you most certainly will need planning permission or an exemption letter regardless of where you run them from and regardless of what's on the application form.

If anyone is contemplating obtaining an operators licence it would be in your interest to contact the planning department and advise them about your situation. Advice is free, so you need not part with any monies?

Regards

JD

JD Wrote:



Ah but will that advise be correct??

JD Wrote:



Sorry for the misunderstanding here JD but it was understanderble, as planning permission costs money a letter does not, therefore it follows if one insits planning is a prerequisit, without investigation, then it natrually follows one will need to pay the associated costs of such.

Interesting thread though as was your input.

Regards Eric

It may be wrong or it may be right, but if you suffer any loss from flawed council advice, you can get it back via the courts.

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IDFIMH

Sussex wrote:



yeah right.