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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:51 pm 
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Location: MILFORD HAVEN
MR T I know you were not being flippant but I used cover up, to avoid people trying to flag me down (even when I had a badge) when I was on a road test but licensing told me that I was not allowed to cover the sign or plate. I have separate traders, taxi and my own private car insurance. But at moment in time they don’ want to know.

They say no, but the summons is for plying for hire and reward.


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:57 pm 
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I would love for them to be trying this one with me, I would be pointing out that in effect that when a vehicle breaks down it cannot be road tested, and in effect they would be putting their entire hackney and private hire fleet off the road, I'll make some more enquiries on Tuesday for you. the words over-zealous seems to spring to mind...... good luck....

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:58 pm 
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Yes all our tests are done twice a year by the councils own garage and they issue the proper VOSA MOT test certificate yearly (vt20)


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 3:58 pm 
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ak5222 wrote:
They say no, but the summons is for plying for hire and reward.


but at that time you had a timed appointment with the Council, so how could you be plying


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:03 pm 
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One other thing to prosecute you for covering the flag up you would have to hold a licence, if you do not hold a licence how can they prosecute you, and if they have told you not to cover it up in the past , then the council itself are placing you in a position you have tried everything ( reasonable) not to be in...

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:09 pm 
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What I would do, if it was me, I would go to every Taxi repair garage and tell them that they cannot road-test any more vehicles, as their mechanics do not hold licences and will be prosecuted, and get everyone of them to contact the council telling them that they will not be placing their mechanics in a position that will lead to court action, and so effectively the council will be placing their entire fleet off the road. but that is just me....

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:20 pm 
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MR T
I think the question a magistrates' would have to ask themselves is

It sounds simple I know, Will common sense prevail. I’ve never been to court, and to be honest some of the stories I’ve heard haven’t given me much faith in the system, to be truthful I am Sh####g myself.
and thanks for your help


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:32 pm 
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Stinky Peat wrote
but at that time you had a timed appointment with the Council, so how could you be plying


They say I could of picked up on the way home


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PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 5:00 pm 
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I find all this a tad bizzarre.

How is a garage going to test drive a cab to check any repairs are pukka? i.e. brakes, bushes, suspension.

It might also be worth checking the council's formal enforcement code. cos I would be surprised if it states that action will be taken without a formal warning.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 8:40 pm 
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RUPERT COPE
HEAD OF TAXI BRANCH
BUSES AND TAXIS DIVISION

DEPARTMENT OF THE ENVIRONMENT
TRANSPORT AND THE REGIONS
INTEGRATED AND LOCAL TRANSPORT DIRECTORATE
3/12
GREAT MINSTER HOUSE

Peter Perkins Esq 76 MARSHAM STREET
Chairman LONDON
NATPHLEO SW1P 4DR
2643A Stratford Road DIRECT LINE: 020 7944 2291

Hockley Heath DIVISIONAL ENQUIRIES: 020 7944 2293

FAX: 020 7944 2279 SOLIHULL GTN CODE: 3533 2291
B94 5NH E-MAIL: e-mail: rupert_cope@detr.gsi.gov.uk

WEB SITE: www.detr.gov.uk

OUR REF: PT2 10/25/13
YOUR REF:

7 NOVEMBER 2000

LOCAL GOVERNMENT (MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS) ACT 1976: ELIGIBILITY
TO DRIVE A PRIVATE HIRE VEHICLE IN ENGLAND AND WALES OUTSIDE
LONDON

I refer to our conversation last week at Telford in which I said I would include you in the letters I
was sending out about eligibility to drive a private hire vehicle (PHV) in England and Wales
outside London.

The need for the letters was, of course, prompted by a parliamentary answer Keith Hill MP, the
Minister for Local Transport, gave to Jeffrey Ennis MP on 26 July. As you know, the matter stems
from a court case in 1997 which essentially stated that the only people who could drive licensed
PHVs in England and Wales outside London were those who held PHV driver licences. In the light
of this judgement, the Department carried out a consultation exercise to seek views on whether we
should make an order under the Deregulation and Contracting Out Act 1994 to broaden the range
of people eligible to drive licensed PHVs. The conclusion that the Minister announced in July was
that only people conducting legally necessary tests, either of the vehicle or the driver, should be
eligible to drive licensed PHVs without themselves holding a PHV driver licence. For reasons
which are set out in the remainder of this letter, he concluded that a deregulation order was not
necessary for this purpose.

The decision took into account that an exemption for testing licensed taxis and would-be taxi
drivers is included in Schedule 7 to the Transport Act 1985 and that we consulted on the basis that
a deregulation order would be necessary to effect the options for change proposed. Against that
background, many have sought clarification of why the Minister reached this conclusion.



This letter sets out the Department's view of the law, but ultimately interpretation of the law is a
matter for the courts. If anyone is in doubt about whether or not they are entitled to drive a licensed
PHV in any particular circumstances, it is of course open to them to obtain their own legal advice.

There is no express statutory provision which exempts those carrying out legally necessary tests of,
or in, licensed PHVs from holding a PHV driver licence. But we consider that it is necessary to
look at the wider legal picture.

The 'MOT' testing scheme for motor vehicles other than goods vehicles is established under
sections 45 and 46 of the Road Traffic Act 1988. By section 47(1) of that Act a person who uses
on a road a motor vehicle to which the section applies will commit an offence if a test certificate
has not been issued within the appropriate period. The only way of obtaining an 'MOT' certificate
is by having the vehicle tested by someone who is authorised to do so.

Closely linked to this are sections 41 and 42 of the 1988 Act which make provision for the general
regulation of the construction and use of vehicles. The principal regulations are the Road Vehicles
(Construction and Use) Regulations 1986. Again, most people have to rely on motor mechanics to
ensure that they do not commit construction and use offences.

Almost inevitably in relation to an 'MOT' test, and in many instances in relation to motor vehicle
maintenance and repair, examiners or motor mechanics will need to road-test a vehicle. If they
were not able to do so in relation to PHVs, then they would probably be unable to carry out the test
or the work in the first place and the owners of the vehicles would find it difficult, if not
impossible, to comply with the statutory requirements.

Under sections 48 and 51 of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976, the
licensing authority is under a specific statutory obligation not to grant a PHV licence unless it is
satisfied that the vehicle is safe and in a suitable mechanical condition nor to grant a PHV driver's
licence unless it is satisfied that the applicant is a fit and proper person. Inevitably, these
obligations will involve an element of testing, during which a person who does not hold a PHV
driver's licence will have to drive a licensed PHV. If this were not the case, then it would be
extremely difficult to comply with the obligations.

In relation to the examples set out above, the view that in no circumstances can a licensed PHV be
driven in a controlled district by a person who does not hold a PHV driver licence produces an
apparent conflict not only between different provisions in the same Act but also between different
provisions in different Acts. If such a conflict were to arise in practice, it would be a matter for a
court to resolve; but we take the view that, despite Schedule 7 to the Transport Act 1985 in relation
to taxis, it could never have been the intention that the strict interpretation should have the effect of
precluding the statutory testing and general maintenance of PHVs or of preventing a licensing
authority from complying with its statutory obligations. Such an interpretation would produce an
absurd result.

We are therefore of the view that should a court have to resolve such a conflict it would not find
that an offence had been committed where a person was driving a PHV in connection with the
testing of the vehicle for statutory purposes or for the purpose of work necessary to keep the
vehicle in good order. We take the same view in relation to the driving of a PHV in connection
with the performance of statutory obligations by a licensing authority.


The purpose of the order-making power contained in the Deregulation and Contracting Out Act
1994 is to reduce or alleviate a burden imposed by legislation but, having come to the conclusion
that the existing legislation would not be interpreted so as to impose a burden in relation to
statutory testing procedures or the compliance with statutory obligations, it followed that no such
order was necessary.

When we next write to the chief executives of all taxi and PHV licensing authorities in England
and Wales on various taxi/PHV matters, we shall include a similar clarification of the Minister's
announcement.

R F COPE

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 8:54 pm 
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All the cases mentioned in the follwoing link can be found in full on TDO.

I'll dig out some more tomorrow.

http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3065

Regards

JD

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Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:12 pm 
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Location: MILFORD HAVEN
I LOVE YOU MR T
That’s just what I was looking for. I cant thank you enougth I owe you one
Many thanks
Alun


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:15 pm 
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Location: MILFORD HAVEN
Thanks JD


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:23 pm 
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ak5222 wrote:
I LOVE YOU MR T
That’s just what I was looking for. I cant thank you enougth I owe you one
Many thanks
Alun

Further to what Mr T has posted I'm pretty sure the response to the commons is on the commons website. So if you google 'Keith Hill taxi MOT' it should show somewhere a link to his speech.

Normally I would wizz you out the link, but I haven't all my tools in front of me to do so.

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IDFIMH


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2007 12:30 am 
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 11:21 pm
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Location: MILFORD HAVEN
Thank you Sussex, I have found it. Love you too and owe you one. I think that I have all I need to prove that I was not breaking the law. It would make me proud to be a taxi driver (if I was one). I am going to put in for my badge, as I’m not going though this again. Thanks again AK


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