Taxi Driver Online

In an article we failed to highlight last year, the Times reported on the illegal activity of limos breaking licensing laws.

Considering the recent events by some limo operators in respect of the so called schedule 6 illegalities, I believe that this article is just as appropriate now as it was then?

Anyone interested in the unlawful limo licensing debate should take note of the figures produced by the authors of this article, especially in the number of prosecutions obtained in the whole of 2005, which amount to just 16 out of a possible thousand or more.

When you consider the fact that practically every limo operator in the UK at that time was unlicensed then it puts into perspective the lack of enforcement carried out by VOSA, the police and local licensing officers.

It also highlights the fact that practically everyone of these limos that carried eight passengers and weren't licensed by the local licensing authority, operated under section 71 b of the Local Government miscellaneous Provisons act 1976. Under what we commonly call the 7 day contract exemption and many still do.

The seven day contract sham involves disguising a one off single limited hire of one or two hours and extended it to seven days. I doubt many of the individuals who book these vehicles are actually aware of the contract details and that the seven day contract is for the benefit of limo operators in order that they can circumvent the law.

Basically what you have is an individual acting on behalf of a group of people wishing to hire one of these limos for a SPECIFIC period of a few hours on a given day? A contract of seven days does not remotely enter their head. Yet don't you think it unusual that those doing the hiring are not offered an alternative contract that befits the actuallity of the contractual service they require rather than the contractual service the operator requires?

I wonder what these limos companies would say if a prospective hirer told them that they didn't want a seven day contract and they wanted a contract of immediate hire for the agreed period of which payment was being made?

I think we can all rightly guess at the outcome of that scenario?

When you also consider that only a handful of licensing authorities at that time actually licensed these vehicles then it makes you wonder why enforcement was none existent? Like me, you might think that 16 individual instances of licensing infringements could have been obtained in one evening never mind one year? The inactivity and complacency of VOSA and those entrusted with policing these vehicles back in 2005 and prior to 2005 is as evident now as it was then.

You may also wish to note that this article states that not one limousine over 8 passenger seats is licensed under PSV legislation. I don't know how true those facts are today or indeed were at the time the article was written but if they weren't accurate then the truth lies somewhere in between?

JD
______________________

The Times (London)

April 18, 2006, Tuesday

Limousine firms that stretch the rules to be driven out of business

BYLINE: Sam Coates, Political Correspondent and Nico Hines

WITH their leering passengers and obstructive manoeuvring, stretch limousines are for many drivers a crime against taste, decency and sensible road use.

Now it turns out that these tinted-window juggernauts are also a crime against the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981.

Inadequate leg room, low ceilings and the lack of proper exits mean that not a single stretch limousine in Britain has been given a licence to operate with more than eight passengers. This has led to a proliferation of companies that are prepared to break the law to secure large bookings, with dozens of websites promising to take groups of up to 30 passengers in one go.

The Government believes that there are 6,000 limousines -half of those in service -flouting the safety rules.

But limousine owners face a nationwide crackdown from today, with police carrying out spot checks to count the number of passengers. There is also a campaign under way to get people to report rogue limousine owners to a hotline run by the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (Vosa). Operators found flouting the law could be banned from using their vehicles or have them impounded.

Limousine use in Britain has flourished in the past few years. In 2003 there were 3,000 cars, rising to 11,000 this year. Almost all are American imports. The expansion is expected to continue at the rate of 50 per cent a year for the next five years. Membership of the National Limousine Association (NLA) has almost trebled in the past three years.

An explosion in bookings to take children to American-style "proms" has helped to fuel the demand. David Carrigan, of Limelight Limousines in Belfast, said that limos brimming with children was a common sight. "I often see people carrying 14 young people in a short limo that should only hold eight and that is dangerous," he said. "I always make sure under-18s are accompanied by an adult but a lot of companies don't. We should crack down on these people."

Darren Roberts, who has run Peak Limousine in the Midlands for ten years, blames the smaller operators entering the market with just one or two cars. "It is very rare that there's a problem with the established companies. The smaller guys don't respect the law closely enough," he said.

Any vehicle that can be booked for eight or fewer passengers must be licensed by councils for "private hire", like a taxi. If it carries more than eight people it should be licensed by Vosa as a bus, making it subject to a much tougher inspection regime, including the requirement for MoT tests every ten weeks. No stretch limousines have been granted such licences.

Despite the lack of licences, a number of companies advertise Humvees, Excursions and other larger members of the family. Mandy Harrisson, NLA treasurer, is certain they are disregarding the law. "It's the bigger companies that have these huge limos that have cost them about £ 100,000. They hold 16 to 18 people and you can be sure they're going to get 16 to 18 people in them. They are clearly flouting the law."

Last year Vosa prosecuted 16 cases of limousine operators carrying nine or more passengers. But some police officers have admitted that they have been confused by the overlapping licensing arrangements, adding their voice to calls for the laws to be clarified.

LONG ON LUXURY

* "Limousine" comes from the French "to cloak". Cars were originally designed to give added privacy

* The National Limousine Association had 108 members in July 2003; now it has 274

* A 20-seat Humvee is advertised on the internet for a one-hour hire in London at a cost of £ 445

* At that price the car will contain three plasma screens, a fibreoptic bar and a mirrored ceiling

* Guinness World Records salutes a 100ft (30m) 26-wheeler complete with a swimming pool, a helipad and putting green.
____________________

Bill Bowling of the then NLA thought up the seven day contract scam. The NLA /NLcA now push useing the self drive Scam.
In any other industry associations like these would be scum of the earth & not held in a light to be looked up to, as this seems to be happening in limo land, by the few members they have.

The seven day contract loophole has been around since the 1976 act was introduced. If Mr Bill Bowling did take advantage of the loophole by formulating a sham contract which wen't beyond the spirit of the legislation then he more than likely wasn't the first person to do it.

These Limo guys desperately need new licesning legislation to come to their aid because I can see that very soon those who are not licensed will have nowhere to hide in respect of unlawfull hire or reward.



I fully expect the unlawfull triangle of association between, operator, driver and agency, to be tested in the courts once those doing the enforcing have been educated as to the law.

Regards

JD

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

The article was mentioned on TDO when it was published, but it elicited little response.

http://taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=46338

I seem to recall a similar article in the Daily Telegraph at around the same time.

_________________
Taxi Driver Online
www.taxi-driver.co.uk

At the time that this article was written it is true that none of the limos that carried over 8 passengers had been licensed. There were a very small number of operators that knew how to operate the self drive system correctly.
It was sometime last year, around June/July time, that the first Excursion limousine passed the COIF and was licensed to carry 13 passengers for hire or reward. I believe that only Excursions that were stretched by one particular company in the States could be converted to meet this requirement.
Since this time some of the other companies that stretch these vehicles have take on board the requirements of COIF and are now building limos with lower floors and higher ceilings than before. Door exits are also being made to the correct size for these regulations. As far as I am aware the shedule 6 conversions also require the doors to be of a certain size which is ok for the Excursions but I understand that vehicles such as Navigators have to have the door openings increased to make them the correct size, all of which is being done.
Now the problem for the man on the street (or an official) is how do you recognise a limo that has been modified from one that hasn't? I for one wouldn't know the difforence without a tape measure.

_________________
Grandad,

Thanx for that Dusty I nearly suggested that it might have been highlighted but I couldn't recall? However ten out of ten for reminding us that there aren't that many hire or reward news items that escape TDO.

Regards

JD

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

Three past articles highlighting the possible dangers associated with limousines?
____________________________________________________

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hamp ... 144472.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nott ... 356664.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/nor ... 984194.stm


Regards

JD

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

John may i ask exactly what career you have ?????

What is your daily job ????

PEST EXTERMINATOR...........

,,,,,,your next

Certainly.



I like to keep that information in-house, if thats ok with you? However, if this enquiry is leading to a punch line, then please feel free to deliver it. lol

Regards

JD

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

I think he is a genie, and on this self-drive scam he is defo out of his bottle.

_________________
IDFIMH

His full time occupation is supplying a chain of Chinese restaurants with hand-made fortune cookies.

you open one and it is written, if you have arrived by self-drive limousine... it is illegal. have a nice day

_________________
Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!

You know fellas , you claim to have contacts with power within goverment bodies, JD commincates with some of the officials we deal with, .......................yet all you do is post articles which are about as relevant as the magnecarta!!!!!

John you and i both know who you talk to within goverment bodies and to a certain extent what is actually discussed yet you dont post anything relevant to present day ???

You all (naively) seem to think that bcause it takes so long to get anything changed within your industry that this rule applies to every industry.

Maybe John, you should speak again to DfT ,Vosa maybe even VOSA enforcement big wigs like Bill or Bob and get hold of some upto date facts.

I think you,ll be presently surprised how fast correct licensing for limos is progressing.

Oh and finally maybe you should look at the DDa 2005 act and its Eu ammendments and sub sections

I think I have made it quite clear that the only thing I'm remotely interested in is the issue of hire or reward.

You seem be of the opinion that my interest in this schedule six issue specifically relates to limousines. The fact of the matter is that the so called self drive loophole being mentioned by people on here has far wider implications than you perhaps realise. There is nothing to stop anyone else with a 16 seater minibus from carrying on the same type of illegal operation as I perceive you limo guys are doing at present.

Therefore as I stated just like section 71 B of the LGMPA the issue has wider implications and if you cannot see that then it is no fault of mine.

I read the DDA 2005 act when it was first introduced in fact the relevant parts relating to Taxis are posted on this site, or at least the links are. In respect of Europe we keep ourselves firmly up to date on legislation affecting the taxi trade and if Europe ever get their act together and produce a European cab act then we will be amongst the first to know.

Regards

JD

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

So you mean that the gov or the DfT have said that don't talk to a Mr Sussex, a Mr TDO, a Mr JD, a Mr T, a Mr GA, a Mr Gusmac, a Mr Skippy, etc etc.

Look mate it took me a while to work it out that it's good to have great talks and chats with civil servants, but at the end of the day they don't do anything without an elected person signature.

If the gov were that interested in your mob they would have still allowed some sort of opt out for the eight or less seaters, but in the 2006 RS act they didn't.

Now what does that tell you?

_________________
IDFIMH