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LEGAL QUESTION..I need good sound advice....HELP

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Sussex

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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:49 pm

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57334
Location: 1066 Country

GA wrote:

I must also add that the situation being discussed within this thread resolves around a person operating a HC from his home address, which happens to be in a different licensing area to that which issues his licences.

But he is not 'operating' as he is a taxi, and they don't 'operate'.

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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:14 pm

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:53 pm
Posts: 10381

From whats been said by Gateshead angel it would appear that this proposal as mr T puts it is down to the fact that Berwick has issued a few licenses and those guys in the North East area aren't too pleased about it? I just wonder why these guys just didn't ask the DFT to introduce legislation that would make all local authorities adhere to one standard. I suppose thats too simple.

If anyone gets a copy of this secret document please let me know I can't wait to see whats in it?

Regards

JD

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MR T

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:49 pm

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:26 pm
Posts: 8529

gusmac wrote:

MR T wrote:

.... it would seem the majority of drivers have no interest in these things, for if they did this conversation would not be taking place. ....

It's not that I have no interest in these things, I choose not to be represented by these people. My choice. And the choice of many others as well :wink:

I used to be like that myself , but unfortunately letters used to come through my letterbox telling me this had changed and that had changed and a new fare rise was being implemented the equivalent to 35 per cent , which directly affected me, when I looked into it it turned out that a group of drivers were claiming to represent the whole of the Hackney Trade in Sefton and were applying for what ever took their fancy, when they got it wrong they simply moved on to another job but I could not/ did not want to, so it became a matter of having to. if somebody chooses not to be part then fine, but I think they should not criticise decisions that are made when they themselves chose not to be part of the decision-making .

Bear in mind that if the trade is not part of the decision making then somebody else will make decisions for the trade

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Taxis

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:03 pm

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:20 pm
Posts: 124
Location: commonsense country

Sussex wrote:

GA wrote:

But he is not 'operating' as he is a taxi, and they don't 'operate'.

Well thats right Sussex !
I am a licensed taxi driver who plys for hire in the area where I am licensed and I take bookings via my mobile phone "which I can legally do so" if I happen to be at home resting or I call home for lunch I can still answer my phone and accept an advanced booking.

I am actually proud to be licensed within the area I am because unlike other areas I hear about fellow drivers do help each other on our rank.
They are a great bunch hack drivers to work with.

I do not catogorise myself or like my sityation used as an example for cross bordering as I mearly live just over the county boundry and I do not think I should have to move home just so I can answer my phone and take a booking.
I am not working from an office outside my licensing area full time without returning to my licencing area at any time.
It may be said that because I use a "Trading as" name and live where I do
that my business is actually operating from my place of residence !!
I would catogrise myself as a hackney driver working from my office and my office been "My car".

I will however like to hear members opinions on how I view my situation.

Steve

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Post subject:

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:05 pm

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:31 pm
Posts: 1761
Location: Commonsense Country

Sussex wrote:

GA wrote:

How can you say that the cross border issue is manageable when I can be stopped by my LO at any time and be checked ................. but a car licensed outside of my borough can only be test purchased if it is thought to be plying for hire.

A police officer can stop any car, and a VOSA man can check any car.

How do you think LOs organise spot-checks at airports with umpteen different area's vehicles?

Is it the job of a Police Officer to stop a Taxi to check the credentials of the driver ...................... well, obviously it is, but only when that officer has just cause to believe that an offence is being committed.

Is it the job of a VOSA "man" to stop and check the same credentials.

The fact remains that it is the responsibility of the LO to organise and then liaise with other relevant agencies to undertake enforcement activities in accordance with the law.

I haven't heard of a LO being in a position to check a drivers credentials if a different authority issued the licence ALTHOUGH it is obviously possible that a full report would be sent if any suspicions arose ....................... the question really is would the issuing authority take any action.

B. Lucky

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Post subject:

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:15 pm

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:31 pm
Posts: 1761
Location: Commonsense Country

Sussex wrote:

GA wrote:

But he is not 'operating' as he is a taxi, and they don't 'operate'.

For fooks sake ........................... I sometimes think I should have planted the lips on ya, on that sunny day not so long ago.

You know what I mean't you cheeky little thwaite.

B. Lucky

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"Here's a simple solution. If you don't want to pay more for a premium service then wait in the queue, problem solved".
Skull on TDO

TF pi$$ed on his chips.

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Sussex

Post subject:

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:21 pm

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57334
Location: 1066 Country

But it's important.

In the 1976 act the only thing that can 'operate' is a PH.

As a taxi is always a taxi, even when doing radio work, there is no requirement for an operator's license at any time, anywhere.

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Post subject:

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:33 pm

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 12:31 pm
Posts: 1761
Location: Commonsense Country

I accept that terminology is important Sussex you old fruit ............................... but the fact that there is no licence requirement to operate HC vehicles or accept bookings on behalf of HC vehicles has implications which are not being properly discussed.

B. Lucky

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"Here's a simple solution. If you don't want to pay more for a premium service then wait in the queue, problem solved".
Skull on TDO

TF pi$$ed on his chips.

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Post subject:

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:18 am

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:53 pm
Posts: 10381

GA wrote:

Ok, so remind us again why you think it is "NECESSARY" to bring hackney carriages under "private hire" legislation when parliament thought otherwise? And also tell us why you and the Rest of your crew in the North East, think you have the given right to dictate to the majority of the hackney carriage trade the laws they can work under?

JD

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Post subject:

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:42 am

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:53 pm
Posts: 10381

MR T wrote:

1.. There is nothing secret about associations they are for members.....

Well one minute you claim a certain association is akin to a secret society and in this breath when the NTA is accused being a secret society you state otherwise. I suppose the NTA is not secret to its members but it is secret to the other 98% of the hackney carriage trade. Thats how small and insignificant the NTA is.

Quote:

Next time you're on a fishing expedition.... get yourself a bigger net. Your still not even warm...

Well I'll put my neck on the line and say that the NTA and especially region 2 is the prime mover in this so called proposal and the reason why it’s secret is because they intend to vote on it at the October AGM.

Now tell me again why hackney carriages should be brought under private hire legislation because the whole of the hackney carriage trade in the country apart from your miniscule gathering of misfits in the NTA are completely nonplussed about Berwick and what their hackney carriages do under private hire conditions.

Regards

JD

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MR T

Post subject:

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:38 pm

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:26 pm
Posts: 8529

Code:

Well one minute you claim a certain association is akin to a secret society and in this breath when the NTA is accused being a secret society you state otherwise. I suppose the NTA is not secret to its members but it is secret to the other 98% of the hackney carriage trade. Thats how small and insignificant the NTA is. 

The older you get the more your memory seems to fail, the NTA through Taxi Talk and other magazines and also local associations often makes public its policies. now seen as you like to keep yourself so secret it would be difficult for any Association to post you a letter asking for your opinion now wouldn't it.
And as for playing with silly figures, give thought to general elections when a third of the population manages to turn out to vote, and then that vote is split between different parties, it seems a odd system to me.

Code:

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:42 am    Post subject:  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
MR T wrote: 
1.. There is nothing secret about associations they are for members..... 

Well one minute you claim a certain association is akin to a secret society and in this breath when the NTA is accused being a secret society you state otherwise. I suppose the NTA is not secret to its members but it is secret to the other 98% of the hackney carriage trade. Thats how small and insignificant the NTA is. 

Quote: 
Next time you're on a fishing expedition.... get yourself a bigger net. Your still not even warm... 

Well I'll put my neck on the line and say that the NTA and especially region 2 is the prime mover in this so called proposal and the reason why it’s secret is because they intend to vote on it at the October AGM. 

Now tell me again why hackney carriages should be brought under private hire legislation because the whole of the hackney carriage trade in the country apart from your miniscule gathering of misfits in the NTA are completely nonplussed about Berwick and what their hackney carriages do under private hire conditions. 

Regards

Cold

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Justice for the 96. It has only taken 27 years...........repeat the same lies for 27 years and the truth sounds strange to people!

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Sussex

Post subject:

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:46 pm

Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:30 pm
Posts: 57334
Location: 1066 Country

As I have said, IMO the Berwick issue is a mess. But surely it would be better just to pressure them into reviewing their age limits.

I can see some merit in getting all non-rank/street taxi work recorded, in the same way as PH work is recorded.

But I think a policy which leads to 1000s of cab drivers having to get an operator's license costing £100s every three years isn't going to be a popular one. :shock:

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Post subject:

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:54 pm

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:53 pm
Posts: 10381

MR T wrote:

The older you get the more your memory seems to fail,

I just wonder who's memory is fading? Didn't you accuse the NTTG of becoming a secret society?

Regards

JD

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Post subject:

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:12 pm

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:53 pm
Posts: 10381

MR T wrote:

1.. There is nothing secret about associations they are for members.

And yet you pointed a finger at the NTTG for becoming a secret society, don't you think that is a slight contradiction of what you say now and what you said then?

It's exactly as I said, these organisations are secretive to the point of excluding the overwhelming majority of the taxi trade and whatsmore you not only agree with that you also actively support it, so lets not mince our words here?

Its a good job TDO doesn't take your attitude towards exclusion otherwise you wouldn't have had access to all the case law and legal comment we put up and which you and Casey had the audacity to steal.

I hope your members enjoy the fruits of our labour.

Regards

JD

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Post subject:

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:41 pm

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:53 pm
Posts: 10381

MR T wrote:

3.. I know many people in associations and unions by their full names.

Well considering you once said the T&G in Liverpool have only 50 members then I'm not surprised because I suspect your association in Sefton has a dam sight fewer?

Quote:

4.. You are left out of the loop by your very secrecy....

I don't think my privacy has anything to do with it, 98% of the taxi trade are excluded from the loop by choice, so I'm in a very privileged majority, and what’s more I like the company I keep. After all, I have a knack of accomplishing more being out of the loop, than being in it and that suits me just fine.

Quote:

5.. Next time you're on a fishing expedition.... get yourself a bigger net.

We shall see, the NTA is the prime mover in the guise of Wayne Casey, he is on record as saying he is going to try and get the legislation changed to bring hackney carriages in line with private hire ever since the Gladen Judgment and that was long before Berwick became a haven for those persons looking for a cheaper licensing authority that offered a little flexibility.

The NPHA might be involved but I can't for the life of me think why because the law as it stands should suit them down to the ground.

Quote:

6. Your still not even warm.

Warmer than you think.

Regards

JD

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