Taxi Driver Online

Read the latest on this subject from the NLcA site.

http://www.nlca.co.uk/news.php

_________________
Grandad,

PSVs can offer the Dial-a-Ride service, which allows them to do exactly what PH do except charge a single fare.

If it wasn't for the amendment in the 2000 Transport Act (I think) then they would also be able to charge a single fare.

_________________
IDFIMH

I'm really not sure about this bit;

However, if your journey starts and finishes at the same point, even with a break in the middle, then the journey would be as defined under “tours and excursions” and as such would be exempt from the 15 mile minimum ruling (Example: Journey from the customers home to a restaurant, or any specific venue, and then a return journey later to the original address) Separate fares would still apply.

What happens if the customers doesn't want you to take them back?

Or if you do another job in between?

_________________
IDFIMH

And I'm defo not sure about this bit;

By note, Section 74 of the Local government miscellaneous provisions act 1976 does state that if you have applied to become licensed as a private hire operator you should be allowed to continue to trade whilst your application is being processed. (Please, register & clarify this with your local authority, and don’t just rely on it. It also may not exempt you from the drivers licensing requirements prior to being granted a licence. Please check and always confirm in writing) This may just assist any operator who has not achieved licensing by the 28th January 2008.

Section 74 related to vehicles not licensed before 1976, not 2008.

_________________
IDFIMH

It is my understanding that these points were clarified by the NLcA with the powers that be shortly before Christmas. The person to contact at the NLcA to clarify anything is Bill Bowling. His contact details are on the NLcA website. I am sure that he will be more than happy for anyone to contact him to check the details.

_________________
Grandad,

Has Bill Bowling said anything different than what we have already stated on this site?

Regards

JD

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

I don't know what else Bill has said but it is his name at the bottom of the link.

_________________
Grandad,

Separate fares yes, timetables no, unless operating a regular service under 15 miles, I think you are getting a little confused.

And don't forget the exemption for "big bus" licence holders

_________________
you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

So where does the confusion come in? Is it the fact that a restricted license has other limited uses but none of them relate to operating a "private hire service" as estabalished under the act of 1976?

Perhaps you might wish to give us your understanding of the private hire services a psv operator with a restricted license can provide? I haven't forgot about the 10% large bus company rule considering I was the first person to provide the actual details of that clause on this site but how many limo companies fit into the category of big bus operators and how many have managed to obtain a coif for their vehicles?

Regards

JD

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

Your earlier post suggested EVERY limo must be ph which is clearly not the case, any op with a full PSV ops licence can do private hire, it is called PRIVATE HIRE in the psv game as well and so can restricted ops as long as they follow the restrictions placed on their own licence by the TC, which usually includes separate fares, however there are a lot of views of what would be accepted as separate fares, which has been discussed on here before.
The need to have a timetable is a complete red herring UNLESS you are operating a registered service of less than 15 miles.
Excursions & Tours do not normally have to be registered if the guidelines are followed.

_________________
you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.

The law will explain exactly what can operate under private hire as follows. I suggest it is read very carefully.

Regards

JD
__________________________

Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981

Section 79 Vehicles excluded from regulation as private hire vehicles.

At any time when a vehicle would apart from section (1.4) of this Act be a public service vehicle, it shall continue to be treated as such for the purposes "only of provisions contained in a local Act", in [sections 10 to 23 of the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982][, in the Private Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998] or in Part II of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976, which regulate the use of private hire vehicles provided for hire with the services of a driver for the purpose of carrying passengers and **exclude public service vehicles from the scope of that regulation**.

Section 1.4 provides

(4) For the purposes of this section a journey made by a vehicle in the course of which one or more passengers are carried at separate fares shall not be treated as made in the course of a business of carrying passengers if—

(a) the fare or aggregate of the fares paid in respect of the journey does not exceed the amount of the running costs of the vehicle for the journey; and

(b) the arrangements for the payment of fares by the passenger or passengers so carried were made before the journey began; and for the purposes of paragraph (a) above the running costs of a vehicle for a journey shall be taken to include an appropriate amount in respect of depreciation and general wear.

79A Small PSVs subject to regulation as private hire vehicles

(1) If a small bus is being provided for hire with the services of a driver for the purpose of carrying passengers otherwise than at separate fares, "it is not to be regarded as a public service vehicle" for the purpose of—

(a) Part II of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976, or

(b) "any local Act applying in any area in England and Wales which regulates the use of private hire vehicles provided for hire with the services of a driver for the purpose of carrying passengers" and **excludes public service vehicles** from the scope of that "regulation".

(2) **If a small bus is being made available with a driver to the public for hire for the purpose of carrying passengers otherwise than at separate fares, it is not to be regarded as a public service vehicle** for the purpose of the Private Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998.

(3) But subsection (1) or (2) does not apply where the vehicle is being so provided or made available in the course of a business of carrying passengers by motor vehicles all but a small part of which involves the operation of large buses. (here's where the 10% comes in)

(4) In this section—“small bus” means a public service vehicle within paragraph (b) of subsection (1) of section 1 of this Act; and “large buses” means public service vehicles within paragraph (a) of that subsection.”

(3) In section 167(4) of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 (touting for hire car services: defence in case of public service vehicles), for “passengers for public service vehicles” substitute “passengers to be carried at separate fares by public service vehicles”.
______________________

Part I Preliminary

Definition and classification of public service vehicles

1 Definition of “public service vehicle”

(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, in this Act “public service vehicle” means a motor vehicle (other than a tramcar) which—

(a) being a vehicle adapted to carry more than eight passengers, is used for carrying passengers for hire or reward; (big bus) or

(b) being a vehicle not so adapted, is used for carrying passengers for hire or reward at separate fares in the course of a business of carrying passengers. (small bus)

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) above a vehicle “is used” as mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) of that subsection if it is being so used or if it has been used as mentioned in that paragraph and that use has not been permanently discontinued.

(3) A vehicle carrying passengers at separate fares in the course of a business of carrying passengers, but doing so in circumstances in which the conditions set out in Part I, or III of Schedule 1 to this Act are fulfilled, shall be treated as not being a public service vehicle unless it is adapted to carry more than eight passengers.

(4) For the purposes of this section a journey made by a vehicle in the course of which one or more passengers are carried at separate fares shall not be treated as made in the course of a business of carrying passengers if—

(a) the fare or aggregate of the fares paid in respect of the journey does not exceed the amount of the running costs of the vehicle for the journey; and

(b) the arrangements for the payment of fares by the passenger or passengers so carried were made before the journey began;
and for the purposes of paragraph (a) above the running costs of a vehicle for a journey shall be taken to include an appropriate amount in respect of depreciation and general wear.

(5) For the purposes of this section, . . . and Schedule 1 to this Act—

(a) a vehicle is to be treated as carrying passengers for hire or reward if payment is made for, or for matters which include, the carrying of passengers, irrespective of the person to whom the payment is made and, in the case of a transaction effected by or on behalf of a member of any association of persons (whether incorporated or not) on the one hand and the association or another member thereof on the other hand, notwithstanding any rule of law as to such transactions;

(b) a payment for the carrying of a passenger shall be treated as a fare notwithstanding that it is made in consideration of other matters in addition to the journey and irrespective of the person by or to whom it is made;

(c) a payment shall be treated as made for the carrying of a passenger if made in consideration of a person's being given a right to be carried, whether for one or more journeys and whether or not the right is exercised.

(6) Where a fare is paid for the carriage of a passenger on a journey by air, no part of that fare shall be treated for the purposes of subsection

(5) above as paid in consideration of the carriage of the passenger by road by reason of the fact that, in case of mechanical failure, bad weather or other circumstances outside the operator's control, part of that journey may be made by road.

Definition of Excursion or tour.

'Excursion or tour' means a service for the carriage of passengers by road at separate fares on which the passengers travel together on a journey, with or without breaks, from one or more places to one or more other places and back:
___________________

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

Excursions are defined in case law and according to current case law going to a restaurant is not an excursion or a special event. I can see there are going to be some very rude awakenings come january 28th providing those concerned understand the law and have the will to prosecute.

Regards

JD

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

74 Saving for certain businesses

Where any provision of this Part of this Act coming into operation on [the relevant day] requires the licensing of a person carrying on any business, or of any vehicle used by a person in connection with any business, it shall be lawful for any person who — (a) immediately before that day was carrying on that business; and (b) had before that day duly applied for the licence required by that provision; to continue to carry on that business until he is informed of the decision with regard to his application and, if the decision is adverse, during such further time as is provided under section 77 of this Act.

[In this section "the relevant day" means —

(a) in relation to a district the whole or part of which ceased to be within the metropolitan police district by virtue of the coming into force of section 323 of the Greater London Authority Act 1999 (alteration of the metropolitan police district), 1st April 2000;

(b) in any other case, a day fixed by resolution under section 45 of this Act.]
_____________________________

45 Application of Part II (I)

The provisions of this Part of this Act, except this section, shall come into force in accordance with the following provisions of this section.

(2) If the Act of 1847 is in force in the area of a district council, the council may resolve that the provisions of this Part of this Act, other than this section, are to apply to the relevant area; and if the council do so resolve those provisions shall come into force in the relevant area on the day specified in that behalf in the resolution (which must not be before the expiration of the period of one month beginning with the day on which the resolution is passed).

In this subsection "the relevant area", in relation to a council, means — (a) if the Act of 1847 is in force throughout the area of the council, that area: and

(b) if the Act of 1847 is in force for part only of the area of the council, that pan of that area.

(3) A council shall not pass a resolution in pursuance of the foregoing subsection unless they have —

(a) published in two consecutive weeks, in a local newspaper circulating in their area, notice of their intention to pass the resolution; and

(b) served a copy of the notice, not later than the date on which it is first
published in pursuance of the foregoing paragraph, on the council of each parish or community which would be affected by the resolution or, in the case of such a parish which has no parish council, on the chairman of the parish meeting.

(4) If after a council has passed a resolution in pursuance of subsection (2) of this section the Act of 1847 comes into force for any part of the area of the council for which it was not in force when the council passed the resolution, the council may pass a resolution in accordance with the foregoing provisions of this section in respect of that part as if that part were included in the relevant area for the purposes of subsection (2) of this section.
_______________________

77 Appeals (1) Sections 300 to 302 of the Act of 1936, which relate to appeals, shall have effect as if this Part of this Act were part of that Act.

(2) If any requirement, refusal or other decision of a district council against which a right of appeal is conferred by this Act —

(a) involves the execution of any work or the taking of any action; or

(b) makes it unlawful for any person to carry on a business which he was
lawfully carrying on up to the time of the requirement, refusal or
decision; then, until the time for appealing has expired, or, when an appeal is lodged, until the appeal is disposed of or withdrawn or fails for want of prosecution —

(i) no proceedings shall be taken in respect of any failure to execute the
work, or take the action; and

(ii) that person may carry on that business.
_____________________

All the above sections are related and section 74 offers no relief to limo operators who are not licensed but have applied to be licensed. The 1976 act is established in every licensing authority in England and Wales albeit that Plymouth has its own version of the 1976 act and London has its own private hire act.

The law is laid out above and is unambiguous, anyone taking bookings or driving a private hire vehicle without the required licenses is guilty of an offence. Mitigatating that a license has been applied for is not a defence and all licensing officers should advise limo applicants of the law in this respect.

Regards

JD

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

With reference to section 79 and 79A of the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 amended by section 265 of the 2000 transport act which I have previously posted, here is an interpretation of the law in respect of psv licenses subject to private hire contracts.

Section 265: Vehicles subject to regulation as private hire vehicles

Section 265 amends the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 (“the 1981 Act”) and the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 (“the 1994 Act”) in relation to vehicles which may be used as public service vehicles or private hire vehicles.

The effect of the amendment to the 1981 Act is that (subject to the limited exception mentioned below) a small public service vehicle (“PSV”) called a “small bus” in the section, can no longer be used for private hire work by virtue of its operator being licensed under the PSV operator licensing system. Instead, to undertake private hire work, the vehicles and their operators will need to be licensed under the Private Hire Vehicle (“PHV”) licensing system.

By virtue of Part II of the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976, the Private Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998 and certain local legislation PSVs in general are exempt from the licensing requirements of those enactments which are otherwise applicable to PHVs.

PHVs are vehicles adapted to carry no more than 8 passengers which are provided for hire with the services of a driver for the purposes of carrying passengers otherwise than at separate fares (i.e. the vehicles are hired a as whole). PSVs are divided by section 1(1) of the 1981 Act into two categories, small PSVs being vehicles of the same size as PHVs used in the course of a business to carry passengers for hire or reward at separate fares (i.e. passengers pay individually as on a bus). Operators of small PSVs are required to be licensed by the traffic commissioners under the 1981 Act but PHVs and their operators are required to be licensed by local authorities.

Subsection (2) adds a new section 79A to the 1981 Act which provides that, save in one case, a small PSV vehicle which is being used to carry passengers otherwise than at separate fares is not to be treated as a PSV for the purposes of gaining exemption from the PHV licensing requirements.

The exception applies where the vehicle is provided in the course of a passenger-carrying business all but a small part of which involves the operation of large PSVs (which are vehicles having more than 8 passenger seats and are described as “large buses”). Subsection (1) makes a consequential amendment in section 79 of that Act.

Subsection (4) amends the prohibition on touting for the hire of taxis and PHVs in section 167 of the 1994 Act. That section currently provides a defence to someone accused of touting if the vehicle is a PSV, however it is to be used at the relevant time. This subsection limits the defence so that it only applies if the vehicle in question is to be used to carry passengers at separate fares.
_________________________

_________________
Copyright notice © The contents of this post are copyright of JD and are not to be reproduced outside of TDO without written permission.

Going to a restaurant COULD be an excursion IF the operator did it correctly and was not prevented from doing so by an attachment to his/her licence.
We have carried out such an excursion on the last Thursday before christmas for the past 6 years ( as a genuine trip and not just an excuse to expolit any perceived loophole). It all comes down to how you go about it.
An important point to bear in mind for those not versed in PSV operations is to remember the work is usually pre-planned and not on demand as most taxi/ph work is.
There is a limit as to how often you could run an excursion of less than 15 miles but as far as I can see this only applies to an individual destination i.e. restaurant or club and not an area in general.
Therefore you could run a trip to BOB's Place, 1, Any Street. Then next day/week go to Fred's Place, 2, Any Street. etc.
If the booking system is consistent with all your other work, the TC would be hard pressed to prevent your journeys and you would still have right of appeal to the Transport tribunal.

_________________
you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.